Troll Lord Games

http://www.ddmsrealm.com/index.php/2012 ... th-edition

Long vid. with Q&A. Of note was that there were no Q's from really veteran players. All but one were 4E players/DM's. Skill checks & saving throws will be tied to ability scores some way. Keeping "best" elements of 4th.

Sounds interesting but, I don't see more than a few % of the players they lost when 4th came out coming back "into the fold" based on what I heard.

Who's to say, but Pathfinder seems to be the 800 pound gorilla these days. If 5E breaks away from the 3.5 type model, the PF crowd would be unlikely to return in great numbers. Will some of the younger PF players be "old school" enough to return to D&D. IF that is the future of D&D.

tylermo wrote:Who's to say, but Pathfinder seems to be the 800 pound gorilla these days. If 5E breaks away from the 3.5 type model, the PF crowd would be unlikely to return in great numbers. Will some of the younger PF players be "old school" enough to return to D&D. IF that is the future of D&D.

"Old School" is definitely NOT what 5th is about. The 4E obsession with character class "balance" remains and is central to the "engine". So, that isn't an issue.

My bad. I thought I heard something about attribute checks awhile back. Any word on feats and skills? I don't care personally, but some of the 3.5/PF crowd might.

tylermo wrote:My bad. I thought I heard something about attribute checks awhile back. Any word on feats and skills? I don't care personally, but some of the 3.5/PF crowd might.

Skills checks & saving throws look to be tied to attributes. They said something about feats. So, should have something akin to those.

Arduin wrote:They said something about feats. So, should have something akin to those.

I have two. 11 1/2 wide.

I'll wait and reserve mt statements of being right until proven to be. Oh wait.

I am not hopeful. Doesnt really matter though, I have tons of 4e stuff, AD&D, C&C, LL, DD, ect so I am covered.

It seems to me, the people who have found Pathfinder enjoy it and probably won't go back to WotC to fill that particular gaming need. The only ones who will, if it some way ressembles 3.5, are the ones who go back because of the name Dungeons & Dragons. It won't be many though, IMHO.

DeadReborn wrote:It seems to me, the people who have found Pathfinder enjoy it and probably won't go back to WotC to fill that particular gaming need. The only ones who will, if it some way ressembles 3.5, are the ones who go back because of the name Dungeons & Dragons. It won't be many though, IMHO.

I agree. They will tick off some (much?) of the 4E fans and there will be no reason really, for PF/3.X fans to purchase... Lose/Lose?

In my fantasies, Hasbro gets sick of all the upkeep D&D requires and sells the trademark to the trolls for pennies on the dollar. Let WotC keep losing their customers while increasing their overhead.

Arduin wrote:

DeadReborn wrote:It seems to me, the people who have found Pathfinder enjoy it and probably won't go back to WotC to fill that particular gaming need. The only ones who will, if it some way ressembles 3.5, are the ones who go back because of the name Dungeons & Dragons. It won't be many though, IMHO.

I agree. They will tick off some (much?) of the 4E fans and there will be no reason really, for PF/3.X fans to purchase... Lose/Lose?

pretty much.

concobar wrote:

Arduin wrote:

DeadReborn wrote:It seems to me, the people who have found Pathfinder enjoy it and probably won't go back to WotC to fill that particular gaming need. The only ones who will, if it some way ressembles 3.5, are the ones who go back because of the name Dungeons & Dragons. It won't be many though, IMHO.

I agree. They will tick off some (much?) of the 4E fans and there will be no reason really, for PF/3.X fans to purchase... Lose/Lose?

pretty much.

They saturate their own market with so much stuff that there must be a tipping point and sales start to plummet, even for new books. Can't support the status quo, can't go backwards can only go forward and make it as exciting as you can make it and get the buzz going.

Lose, lose, lose/possible success?

FYI: I hope it is a big win for WoTC. If not the D&D line might be cut from Hasbro and rpg's will experience another dark age.

IMO and all that.

Pretty much agreed. How many people stay with PF vs. 5E is going to be the key issue. Sure WOTC could maybe win a scant few C&C, rolemaster, Lab Lord, etc./old school grognards. Not even sure about that. Either way, it probably wouldn't be enough. At the end of the day, they need 3.5/PF players to leave Paizo in droves. Time will tell if that happens. One thing is certain, the OGL was a blessing and a curse for WOTC. More of the latter these days.

Sir Ironside wrote: FYI: I hope it is a big win for WoTC. If not the D&D line might be cut from Hasbro and rpg's will experience another dark age.

IMO and all that.

No worries. A public company like Hasbro can't sit on IP like that and not make $ with it. This is more the case because of the OGL. They would sell the IP rights rather than sit on it. The name D&D is synonymous with FRP gaming.

Speaking of names, C&C is probably the best name in the FRP space out of the rest, positioning wise. About the only place it would be problematic is in the Middle East. But, I guess the could rename it, Carpets & Camels for that market.

Hypothetically, if the IP were for sale and the Trolls could afford it, would C&C renamed D&D be able to overcome pathfinder? I'm biased toward the C&C way, but let's approach this realistically.

tylermo wrote:Hypothetically, if the IP were for sale and the Trolls could afford it, would C&C renamed D&D be able to overcome pathfinder?

That is just one part of the marketing equation. Important but, not overriding. Speaking from experience of course.

I'm hopeful for the next iteration of D&D. If it does what they're claiming it will do, it should be a pretty fantastic system. Those who liked 4e or currently have 3.x/PF as their game of choice can still continue to play what they like - big hairy men with guns aren't going to come knocking on your door. Will I stop playing the game I like? No. Is there room on my bookshelf for D&D Next? Sure is.

Arduin wrote:No worries. A public company like Hasbro can't sit on IP like that and not make $ with it. This is more the case because of the OGL. They would sell the IP rights rather than sit on it. The name D&D is synonymous with FRP gaming.

If the effort doesn't produce big gains that Hasbro is used to, yeah they can and will shut it down. It is not unheard of a big company just sitting on a IP. Fox and; Firefly/Serenity is a good example of this.

I'd also gather that selling the IP would be well beyond anything other companies could afford, Paizo being one of them.

Still IMO.

Yeah. Who could afford the IP? It would probably be priced out of the realm of possibility. So high that D&D would be stuck in limbo. "Sounds" like another gaming property I remember.

Sir Ironside wrote:
I'd also gather that selling the IP would be well beyond anything other companies could afford, Paizo being one of them.

Still IMO.

RPG companies, I agree. But, Hasbro wasn't such a company. Probably some Chinese concern would buy it and put out a Oriental Adventures version. Poorly translated back into English.

They could milk the name Dungeons & Dragons for everything it's worth, even if it's not for a table top RPG. They still could use it for video games, board games, etc. Personally, I hope 5e or Next or whatever is a success. Anything that keeps interest in pen and paper games. Hopefully, it will put Dungeons & Dragons back where it belongs, back on top. Right behind Castles & Crusades, of course.

I really liked what they had to say and it actually makes me more excited for the new version. If '5e' is like what they are promising I will buying in. I did notice that about the 45 minute mark the basement dwellers starting crawling out of the woodwork...

Julian Grimm wrote: I did notice that about the 45 minute mark the basement dwellers starting crawling out of the woodwork...

I missed that. I heard mainly 4E fan bois.

Overall I liked what was said. The grid is now gone, there is a simple set of core rules and the game is going to be designed where you won't have to buy new books if there is an update and everything is being set to reflect the tastes of individual DMs. This has my interest. I also like Mike Mearls and his attitude toward older editions.

This is definitely a step away from the Collins era of D&D and a welcome change. To be honest, I am optimistic about the new edition. I think it will fit what I want and I think it will fit in with the paradigm of what was established with C&C.

Julian Grimm wrote: I did notice that about the 45 minute mark the basement dwellers starting crawling out of the woodwork...

HAHAHA! Just a n observation, You are the basement dweller to someone... Just saying.

concobar wrote:

Julian Grimm wrote: I did notice that about the 45 minute mark the basement dwellers starting crawling out of the woodwork...

HAHAHA! Just a n observation, You are the basement dweller to someone... Just saying.

I don't have a basement...

Julian Grimm wrote:Overall I liked what was said. The grid is now gone, there is a simple set of core rules and the game is going to be designed where you won't have to buy new books if there is an update and everything is being set to reflect the tastes of individual DMs.

The problem, though, is that for those of us who enjoy tournament play, WotC has always been about making sure that you have to have the most recent incarnation of their products to be able to participate. That's one of the things that got me away from playing Magic. When my group started buying into that trend to keep tournament legal, rendering all the previous cards I'd bought useless, I was done.

Arduin wrote:http://www.ddmsrealm.com/index.php/2012 ... th-edition

After watching part of the video I've come to this definite conclusion, Mike Mearls is Newt Gingrich's love child. What this means for 5e, only time will tell.
Seriously, Mearls looks like a good cookie. Wish him the best. Not sure about the other chucklehead.

Thanks for posting the link.

Sir Osis of Liver wrote:

Julian Grimm wrote:Overall I liked what was said. The grid is now gone, there is a simple set of core rules and the game is going to be designed where you won't have to buy new books if there is an update and everything is being set to reflect the tastes of individual DMs.

The problem, though, is that for those of us who enjoy tournament play, WotC has always been about making sure that you have to have the most recent incarnation of their products to be able to participate. That's one of the things that got me away from playing Magic. When my group started buying into that trend to keep tournament legal, rendering all the previous cards I'd bought useless, I was done.

I'm not particularly worried about that angle of D&D. To be honest, anything like 'official' or 'tournament' is of no interest to me. Now, if someone from the company comes out with errata or an update I will look at it and decide if it works for my game. In all honesty I don't see what WOTC does as any different than what Gary did back in the day with AD&D. He pushed officialism and how AD&D was better than OD&D to drive sales. Later TSR did the same and I see WOTC as just continuing the trend.

To be completely honest I don't see how WOTC wanting to do this is any different than TLG rolling out a new PHB revision. The each print made changes to the game (4th print made the biggest to date) and, in order to get those changes, you have to buy the book. At least with 3.5 D&D WOTC made those changes to the core rules available for free.