Dragon Warriors

DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:55 am

Okay, so it seems that a few people here know of Dragon Warriors. I'd never heard of the game until recently. I knew Mongoose was publishing MO's updated version, but I've never seen the original. Can anyone give me some info on it? How does it play compared to the skills/feat heavy RPGs of today? It seems to be more "pick up and play" friendly than D&D. Also, from what I've read, I get the impression it's kind of a pulp swords and sorcery vibe mixed with perhaps a bit of Warhammerish feel since it's a British RPG. Is that an accurate assessment? Thanks in advance for any info!

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:22 am

The first book was out in 86 I think so it has the early feel of D&D but some streamlining of the rules... I think the one thing I love is that the books are easy reads and actually quite enjoyable!

To me DW was C&C back in the day!
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DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:04 pm

Quote:
The first book was out in 86 I think so it has the early feel of D&D but some streamlining of the rules... I think the one thing I love is that the books are easy reads and actually quite enjoyable!

To me DW was C&C back in the day!

Hmm...interesting. I'll have to pick up the core book once it's on Amazon. I'm already 2 months into 4e and am finding it kind of a drag to DM. Maybe it's because my players all want hack n' slash and I try to throw in a bit of RP....

One thing I dislike about 4th is the marking system in combat. I may house rule those away and just run it like that. I don't think that would break the system too heavily is a mark is usually only a -2 penalty anyway. For ones that deal damage like the Paladin's, I'd leave as is. I dunno' yet; either way I'll probably pick up DW as I can never have enough RP books!

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:07 pm

NOOOOOOoooo my preorder is delayed... sigh by like 6 weeks WTF.
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:50 pm

DaveyB wrote:
I'd never heard of the game until recently.

Being a UK game published through book retailers (not gaming stores), DW didn't reach the US in any great number. It was prolific in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and throughoyut Europe.

DaveyB wrote:
Can anyone give me some info on it? How does it play compared to the skills/feat heavy RPGs of today? It seems to be more "pick up and play" friendly than D&D. Also, from what I've read, I get the impression it's kind of a pulp swords and sorcery vibe mixed with perhaps a bit of Warhammerish feel since it's a British RPG. Is that an accurate assessment? Thanks in advance for any info!

It's rules are a lot like a streamlined version of Red Box D&D with a slightly darker, humanocentric and more historical default setting. I wouldn't call it pulp sword and sorcery, though it shares a lot of the same elements such as the humanocentric and dark elements.

The best description of it comes from the original back cover:

Quote:
Dragon Warriors is the key to a magic world. A land of cobwebbed forests and haunted castles. A land where dire monsters lurk in the shadows of night, where hobgoblins shriek across the bleak and misty moors, where wizards and armoured warriors roam dank dungeons in their quest for gold and glory. The realm of your imagination. This is the world of Dragon Warriors: a unique role-playing game in which you and your friends become the mighty heroes of fantasy. Take up your sword, your war-axe or your bow. Within ten minutes you will be battling with your first deadly foe in a perilous adventure."

AslanC · Post by **AslanC** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:39 pm

Has anyone got a copy of the new one or an provide a review link?
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:07 am

I'm waiting for these books to get to US distributers. As soon as they get in, I'll pick up a copy and do a brief review.

-O
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:08 pm

Mine arrived today. I will do a mini review, but in the meantime I am happy to answer any questions.

My first impression is that it feels fresh and new, yet completely nostalgic. It also feels as complete a RPG as the Rule Cyclopedia yet with about 80% less clutter.

AslanC · Post by **AslanC** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:16 pm

Well I guess my big concern is whether or not they have updated the rules to be a bit more ... I dunno... focused? That's the wrong word but I can't think of it. essentially have they updated and steamlined the rules?
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:29 pm

AslanC wrote:
Well I guess my big concern is whether or not they have updated the rules to be a bit more ... I dunno... focused? That's the wrong word but I can't think of it. essentially have they updated and steamlined the rules?

The book has been heavily reorganised to make it much more usable. However, most of the text is still word for word the same. For example, magic attacks still roll 2d10 whilst normal attacks roll 1d20
There are some changes but they are minor and specific, often just making old rules explicit.

Examples of changes include:

1. Elementalists have a bonus to Evasion and Magic Defence against their element.

2. Elementalists have a generic ability to use their MPs to manipulate their element for minor stuff outside their spells.

3. A few spells have been altered.

4. Barbarians and Knights have Track.

5. The ability to use Warhorses is now in the Profession description, not the bestiary.

6. Assassins do not get all their abilities, but must choose them as they increase in rank.

Overall, the game feels like DW of old but with a few minor changes for play balance.

One real advantage of the reorganisation is that section that previously saw little use in my game will now see more use. The way the languages, society description and social rank have been brought out from the Setting chapter and into their own makes it more useable.

Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:01 pm

I may look into this if it is released in the USA.Otherwise I won't bother, as I have plenty of settings & games to play or run as it is now.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:03 pm

Sounds good. The organization and bouncing back and forth between rules was always a pain. I'm glad the new DW book at least put that to rest by including everything in one book.

-O
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:12 pm

Iam_Who_Iam wrote:
I may look into this if it is released in the USA.Otherwise I won't bother, as I have plenty of settings & games to play or run as it is now.

It will be hitting US retailers shortly, if not some already.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:14 pm

Omote wrote:
Sounds good. The organization and bouncing back and forth between rules was always a pain. I'm glad the new DW book at least put that to rest by including everything in one book.

Yeah, good examples are:

1. How spells work is set out in one chapter. Then all the spells are contained in the next chapter.

2. There is a new chapter called In the Beginning, right after PC creation. It collates the material on Social Class, Backgrounds, Nationality and Languages. It is now a functional "PC Background" chapter.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:23 pm

Very nice. Now, possibly DW can make a come back from near obscurity! Because the series now follows a tried and true approach to presenting itself as an FRPG, there will be room to grow (especially in the USA). The books sure look good, and the layout is nice and clean. That will do a great deal to get people back into the game.

-O
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:35 pm

Omote wrote:
Very nice. Now, possibly DW can make a come back from near obscurity! Because the series now follows a tried and true approach to presenting itself as an FRPG, there will be room to grow (especially in the USA). The books sure look good, and the layout is nice and clean. That will do a great deal to get people back into the game.

Yes, even though nothing is certain, there is even mention of further DW books with new material being possible if demand justifies it.

angelius · Post by **angelius** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:55 pm

I hear I should be getting mine pretty soon! yay!
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:05 pm

Skywalker wrote:
It will be hitting US retailers shortly, if not some already.

FRP Games have it and they are in the US:
http://www.frpgames.com/new/cart.php?m= ... il&p=47061

AslanC · Post by **AslanC** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:20 pm

Thanks for the info. I think I will give this a miss since I wasn't a fan of the psionic Mystic in the original. A shame really, but I am one of those people who doesn't like mental powers in my fantasy.

That said I hope they find a great audience, we need more generic fantasy rpgs than just D&D and Warhammer (Which I feel isn't generic since it is wold specific, but YMMV)
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:23 pm

AslanC wrote:
Thanks for the info. I think I will give this a miss since I wasn't a fan of the psionic Mystic in the original. A shame really, but I am one of those people who doesn't like mental powers in my fantasy.

Each to their own. I often have a similar issue with divine magic in fantasy settings

AslanC · Post by **AslanC** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:44 pm

Skywalker wrote:
Each to their own. I often have a similar issue with divine magic in fantasy settings

Now don't get me wrong, there are other parts of their game I just plain love... the Armour Factor alone i worth the price of admission. But divine Magic was the issue fo me. I like Clerics, they are fun and I enjoy them immensly in my fantasy rpgs.

Dragon Warriors didn't have them and I couldn't figure out how to shoe-horn them in.

Whenever I found some online fan made advanced version it became as complicated as 3.5 to me.

Hmmm... I wonder how hard it would be to adapt the AF to C&C?

To be fully honest, the only things I don't like about D&D is hit points, armor class and levels... but they are sort of the bread and buter of the games.

I had high hopes when I picked up Dragon Warriors (original) and I found the AF answered my AC issues excellently.

Now to replace hit points with some sort of wound system and I can live with levels in the end.

whoops... osrta started ranting there. Sorry about that.
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:07 am

AslanC wrote:
I like Clerics, they are fun and I enjoy them immensly in my fantasy rpgs.

Dragon Warriors didn't have them and I couldn't figure out how to shoe-horn them in.

There are plenty of priests running around in DW, just not magic using ones. Knights can easily be priests, as can pretty much any other Profession.

The idea of divine magic is something that is uncommon in most fantasy stories. It really comes from D&D.

AslanC wrote:
I had high hopes when I picked up Dragon Warriors (original) and I found the AF answered my AC issues excellently.

Now to replace hit points with some sort of wound system and I can live with levels in the end.

The way DW Hps do not escalte anywhere near the level of D&D solves most of my issues with them. I also note that it is optional in DW now to not have them esclate at all.

AslanC · Post by **AslanC** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:52 am

While I accept that divine magic comes from D&D I will confess I like it
HPs will always be an issue for me as I find them a horrible reflection of ability to stay in a fight. I prefer the old Cyberpunk wounds system from the 2013 edition. The problem becomes scaling.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:47 am

It is also possible to supplement DW HP with a wound track, or some sort of decreased ability based on current HP level.

-O
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DaveyB · Post by **DaveyB** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:49 pm

Skywalker wrote:
FRP Games have it and they are in the US:

Is this site reliable? Has anyone ordered from them before? How is their service? I am interested in this game, even if I never play it; looks like something I would enjoy reading. Anyone?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Noble Knight games has DW as well and they are extremely reliable.
www.nobleknight.com

-O
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:07 pm

Alas, at this very moment Nobleknight seems to be out of stock of DW. I'd e-mail them your request and/or check back with them in a few days.

-O
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Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:14 pm

Omote wrote:
It is also possible to supplement DW HP with a wound track, or some sort of decreased ability based on current HP level.

FWIW the new DW book has a number of rules variants including long term injuries and shock and KO rules (amongst other rule variants). It not quite a wound track but it does add some more detail to combat over simple HP loss.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 pm

DaveyB wrote:
Is this site reliable? Has anyone ordered from them before? How is their service? I am interested in this game, even if I never play it; looks like something I would enjoy reading. Anyone?

FRP Games are an established internet retailer. I have purchased from them before and they are good. They aren't so great for international customers as they charge high shipping but within the US it is reasonable.

Skywalker · Post by **Skywalker** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:41 pm

Just an update. The Bestiary is now reaching retailers.

The books are selling very well from all accounts. It seems that Mongoose may have already sold the first print run of the core book and is printing more copies. The Bestiary is also selling fast. The entire stock sent to Dragonsmeet in the UK sold in 45 minutes