Troll Lord Games

...has anyone heard anything about Gygax Games and any plans for CZ? I haven't been over to the GG website in some time, and last time I was there it was a ghost town. I was just wondering if someone heard something about any plans for the CZ line, or the GFW line.

I'm pretty much to the point where I'm just going to use the Castle of the Mad Archmage for my lower levels for CZ and I'm going to consider the GFW series complete. But if something came out, and it was done using the C&C rules (or possibly OSRIC or d20, but not 4e), then I would consider buying it (though I still might not considering the way things were done, but that's another story).
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

I need to check out their website again. Ghost town, eh? That's a shame if it's true. Nobody expects them to give firm dates, or anything. It would be nice to know if the new Zagyg material is going to be for 4E, the new Lejendary Adventure rules from Mongoose(? whenever that's going to be released), or some other system. Obviously, C&C is out of the picture. So, if the new and improved(for lack of a better term)Zagyg is going to make any real money, wouldn't it have to be for 4E(even though I'm not a fan of the system). Gurps Zagyg? Palladium Zagyg? HERO 6th edition Zagyg? I'm just trying to follow the money as to why it made any sense to move it from a devoted base of C&C customers. To me, 4E is the only answer. That said, won't Zagyg be too similar to Greyhawk for WOTC's liking? Then again, if they could find some legal way to do it, WOTC and Tri-Gee could release and official D&D product...Gary Gygax's GREYHAWK! A return to the original! The way it was meant to be! Doubtful that would happen. Anyway, I'm not slagging Tri-Gee. I'd just like to have an idea of what we can expect, not even when at this point. Back to the whole ghost town website issue...seems to me there was a website *cough cough* that wasn't a ghost town, that cared about each new Zagyg release. That's water under the bridge, I guess. At least, we're getting all sorts of goodies from TLG...CKG, J. Ward's new book, more A series, etc.

Agreed on all fronts, tylermo. I think they are going to follow the money, and as much as I dislike that idea, it only makes sense from a business standpoint. I think if it goes the Wizbro way (under their logo), then they'll probably push for a name change from CZ to Gary Gygax's Castle Greyhawk or something similar, if they have their way. Unless it goes only GSL and they (Gygax Games) keeps it in house and it that way it would keep the CZ name. But I don't know. It's only specualtion, but there's got to be something up with the extended silence. Maybe they're (again, Gygax Games) just trying to wait until the dust settles to make their move.

But yeah, I'm completely happy with TLG's offerings, to be honest, so I'm not completely bummed. I wish GG would do some more on this, though (and preferably for C&C).
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

GG forums are dead. No news at all about anythig(LA,CZ nothing about anything in months).

In other news 4E is going Greyhawk. At least a world book and adventures (4E Village of Homlet is the only thing solid at this point).

Rumor control has Greyhawk coming out in 2010.
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Baron Golden, Knights of the Tin Palace (GameOgre)

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GameOgre wrote:
GG forums are dead. No news at all about anythig(LA,CZ nothing about anything in months).

In other news 4E is going Greyhawk. At least a world book and adventures (4E Village of Homlet is the only thing solid at this point).

Rumor control has Greyhawk coming out in 2010.

Well...some links would be nice.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Frankly this has been the best thing for the Trolls (well maybe not emotionally). It seems that there has been a steady supply of high quality C&C material ever since the news was released. Castle Greyhawk is in the works, it was very clear in an interview with Mearls on a podcast back when the Trolls still had CZ. Basically Mearls said there was no spark left in Greyhawk, and there needed to be something special to get the players back. A short time later, GG pulled the license.

Maybe it will be great, who knows? The Gygax family should be filthy rich regardless.
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Someone send me some dice!

Heh, I wouldn't say "filthy rich," not in the rpg industry. They'll make decent coin, that's for certain. Yeah, I remember that Mearls comment, but the way Ogre was talking, I thought there was some new info. And, honestly, I thought the TLG offerings were good before/during the CZ days. I just think the attention is more on stuff now since CZ is no longer an attention-getter. Just my two cents, though.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

I wouldn't hold my breath on any of the above if I were you.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

I think that, without the Tri-Gee material, Troll Lord Games have been able to re-focus their creative energies. I doubt we would be seeing the CKG this year or a couple other things we have seen or will be soon seeing if they were still burdened with these properties.

As such, a very good year for C&C in general and additional growth which may have not been possible while juggling both Zagyg and LA

As for WOTC and Greyhawk, they really don't need any assistance from Tri-Gee since they own a lot of the relevant IP associated with it. Even if they were involved, it wouldn't be a huge cash windfall by any stretch of the imagination which, in my mind, rules out the notion of a venture.

At this point, I think some people are simple awaiting the coroner over at the GG forums.

M
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You might be right mort. I think TLG's recent offerings have been top notch. I don't know what they would have been like if things didn't happen the way they have, but that's not for me to be terribly concerned about.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Well, I don't firmly believe that WOWTC, and the Gygax family have hooked up. I was just speculating. Just trying to figure out where the big windfall of cash(however big or small that windfall may be) is going to come from by moving it from C&C. It has to be some original system, a new and improved LA, or 4E rules. 4E seems to be the only path to the big(?) bucks. Otherwise, the new CZ needs to be marketed to 30, 40, and 50-something gamers who actually know who Gary Gygax was. It's all a moot point anyway. That said, I hope they have a firm plan for CZ, or(judging by their forums) they may have killed it. I was hoping for maps, adventures, and the lower works. I'm sure some of our trolling forum-posters could have made it usuable for the C&C community. Oh well. I do have to agree that some C&C products might have been sidelined to pump out CZ. I do believe(to some degree) that letting LA go was the right thing to do. Good products, but not near as much interest in them as there was with CZ, and C&C. No worries...C&C it is. Bring on da products!

Oh, I know you were only speculating, tylermo...as was I. And I agree that the only place where they're going to get any serious cash in the RPG market, and this isn't a knock against TLG, is Wizbro. If it gets released, I believe it'll be for that system, more's the pity - not because I dislike 4e, but because CZ doesn't seem to be a good "fit" for 4e. Maybe that's me, though.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

It's funny but GG's Castle Zagyg brought me to C&C, but now that I'm here, I think they are better without it.

Sir Ironside wrote:
It's funny but GG's Castle Zagyg brought me to C&C, but now that I'm here, I think they are better without it.

I don't know. I mean everyone's entitled to their own opinion and all. I don't think they are "better" moreso than "different." I think the releases that they are releasing are probably coming out quicker than they would have if the Trolls were working on CZ and if that's what you mean (more and "better" product release) then, yes I can agree with that. But to me that's "different." Instead of looking forward to Black Libram or Heart of Glass, I'd be looking forward to the lates installment of the CZ series. But again, that's just my opinion.
Don't mind me...it's been a long day at work.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Rumbles and rumors, but nothing stated as far as I know, though I have not honestly been looking for it, either. Too many fires in too many states of burning...
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Serl's Corner

Lord Dynel wrote:
I don't know. I mean everyone's entitled to their own opinion and all. I don't think they are "better" moreso than "different." I think the releases that they are releasing are probably coming out quicker than they would have if the Trolls were working on CZ and if that's what you mean (more and "better" product release) then, yes I can agree with that. But to me that's "different." Instead of looking forward to Black Libram or Heart of Glass, I'd be looking forward to the lates installment of the CZ series. But again, that's just my opinion.

Well in all fairness, I've never even seen any CZ products... not a one. But I'm a completist kind of guy and it would've bothered me immensly that it wouldn't have been finished. But, from what I see, it has made C&C more cohesive. Just my opinion.

Lord Dynel wrote:
Don't mind me...it's been a long day at work.

Eh, your gonna have to do much better than that to piss me off, in real life or on a forum. I've got a very thick skin, and really you didn't say anything that was offensive at all, so no need to apologize.

I tend to piss people off, both RL and Forum, just cause I'm a straight shooter... not always right but see it and say it as I see it. I don't mean to but it seems to come off as a tad abrasive.

Sir Ironside wrote:
I tend to piss people off, both RL and Forum, just cause I'm a straight shooter... not always right but see it and say it as I see it. I don't mean to but it seems to come off as a tad abrasive.

Don't worry, we're used to abrasive around here. After all, I've been hanging out with the troll lords for a few years now.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Sir Ironside wrote:
Well in all fairness, I've never even seen any CZ products... not a one. But I'm a completist kind of guy and it would've bothered me immensly that it wouldn't have been finished. But, from what I see, it has made C&C more cohesive. Just my opinion.

Oh, I know what you mean about being a completist. So, yeah, it does bother me a great deal that they're ending production. But what was given to us was spectacular. Jett Talanian, who wrote it with Gary's direction, did a phenomenal job. Truly great work. It's hard for me to fight the completist side of myself, but I feel Gary and Jeff's work was too good to pass up.

Quote:
Eh, your gonna have to do much better than that to piss me off, in real life or on a forum. I've got a very thick skin, and really you didn't say anything that was offensive at all, so no need to apologize.

I tend to piss people off, both RL and Forum, just cause I'm a straight shooter... not always right but see it and say it as I see it. I don't mean to but it seems to come off as a tad abrasive.

Good. I usually try to speak my mind, too, as much as I possibly can. I try to realize when to be a bit more subtle, for posterity's sake, but that doesn't always happen.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Heh, abrasive. We'll see.
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Serl's Corner

serleran wrote:
Heh, abrasive. We'll see.

Well it wasn't a challenge, more so a statement of fact. I had my own haters group at RPGnet before I left there. (I couldn't stand their elitist way of thinking over there, and the obvious "Who can look up the most obscure facts, on the internet, so I can look the smartest, but your suppose to think I had this knowledge without looking it up." contest they had day in and day out.) The mods really got full of themselves and came off like if you didn't worship them they'd give you a hard time. Which they did and I left, with zero regrets.

Here seems much more sedate... and real, which is cool.

OK rant over.

I take everything as a challenge. It's why I am a jackass.
Anyway, welcome to the boards if I have not said so before, which I probably did not.
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Serl's Corner

serleran wrote:
I take everything as a challenge. It's why I am a jackass.

OK; your choice muskets or swords at dawn.

serleran wrote:
Anyway, welcome to the boards if I have not said so before, which I probably did not.

I don't know if you did either, but thanks.

Quote:
OK; your choice muskets or swords at dawn.

If it were my choice, why did you feel it necessary to restrict to your preferences? No thanks. It will be chickens and flamethrowers... you can bring the honey mustard and I will bring the BBQ sauce.

Anyone want seconds?
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Serl's Corner

I've been buying C&C products since 2003, and was looking forward to them long before I really knew anything about CZ. Of course, I was buying CZ stuff as it came out. Then again, I was buying the C&C books upon release as well. I enjoyed both lines a great deal. I'm sad that one of them is no longer with us, but at least I have my A series, Casey's stuff, and the myriad other mod's and supplements for C&C.

FLAMETHROWERS!!!

-O
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Sir Ironside wrote:
Well it wasn't a challenge, more so a statement of fact. I had my own haters group at RPGnet before I left there. (I couldn't stand their elitist way of thinking over there, and the obvious "Who can look up the most obscure facts, on the internet, so I can look the smartest, but your suppose to think I had this knowledge without looking it up." contest they had day in and day out.) The mods really got full of themselves and came off like if you didn't worship them they'd give you a hard time. Which they did and I left, with zero regrets.

Here seems much more sedate... and real, which is cool.

OK rant over.

Sounds like a shitty place. Glad I never frequented that place, or there'd be some serious issues between them and myself.

All the same, glad to have you aboard, hoss.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Lord Dynel wrote:
Sounds like a shitty place. Glad I never frequented that place, or there'd be some serious issues between them and myself.

Your not missing much, but to each his own. Of course that rant would have started a intense flame war, where it be me against all the defenders of faith. Of course I'd win cause they'd get really pissed off.

Lord Dynel wrote:
All the same, glad to have you aboard, hoss.

Thanks, so far it has been good. I knew this was gonna be a good forum when I didn't get the, your a newbie so shut your mouth, your opinion doesn't matter until you've been in the board for awhile. (Which then they'd receive the Captian Kirk negotiation from me.) That is so prevelant at other forums... and I sometimes forget that a mod has made a post, cause I'm not the most observant and I don't always see the mod designation under their name... which is totally cool.

So, again thanks.

serleran wrote:
If it were my choice, why did you feel it necessary to restrict to your preferences? No thanks. It will be chickens and flamethrowers... you can bring the honey mustard and I will bring the BBQ sauce.

Again why then do we have to be restricted to your preferences (I don't even like honey mustard.) I'll tell you what, the only solution seems that you bring chickens and flamethrowers and I'll bring muskets and swords. Hmmmm... can't seem to get the image tags to work.

Ah, at last an agreement. I don't like honey mustard, either.
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Serl's Corner

Glad to see you boys getting along.

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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.