Troll Lord Games

What an awesome campaign setting. Threshold, Specularum, Galantri, Thar, non-drow dark elves. Rockholm, blackmore, Alfheim.

Yes, cool setting indeed. And, C&C plays very well within the setting. The original Known World with the ease and classicness of C&C make for a solid campaigning experience. But you already knew that.
~O
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Are you saying you are more of a fan of Mystara as a whole, with all of the Basic D&D supplements/Gazetteers, or are you PURE Known World (Pre Gazetteer) with only the Mentzer Box sets some basic modules?

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

What are the differences?
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AslanC wrote:
What are the differences?

Well, there seem to be three camps of Known World / Mystara followers out there.

First, there is the original Known World setting that just comprises the Mentzer Basic D&D rules books (BECMI), plus some of the early modules of the time (B1-9, X1-5, etc). In this first version of Known World, the details are really basic. The lands and the immortals are not really defined from modules to module, and the whole sense of the series has a total do-it-yourself approach.

Second, there is the Known World that became part of the Gazetteer series. This series included the books Karameikos, Glantri, Alfiem, Thyatis Box Set, Rockhome, etc. These Gazetteers really fleshed out the Known World with a great amount of detail. In this time period there were plenty of products to support the GAZ series, like the Poor Wizard's Almanac series (I-II), two big, honkin' trail maps, Hollow World series, and the like. The Rules Cyclopedia came out near the end of the GAZ run, though I would say that the RC, and the Basic D&D products of this time fall into this category of the Known World.

The third iteration of this setting is during the 2E daysofAD&D when the setting was rebooted and offically called Mystara. For the most part, all of the older GAZ stuff still applied, but the 2E days moved the timeline forward a bit brought in larger box sets dealing with Karameikos and Glantri. Some might say that the tone of the setting changed from the Known World/GAZ series from the 2E material. The look of the product line was noticable different, and had a much more prominant renaissance feel to it.

~O
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

I am a fan of Mystara, with the Gaz's.
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there is the original Known World setting that just comprises the Mentzer Basic D&D rules books (BECMI), plus some of the early modules of the time (B1-9, X1-5, etc). In this first version of Known World, the details are really basic. The lands and the immortals are not really defined from modules to module, and the whole sense of the series has a total do-it-yourself approach.[/quote]I have all of the GAZ supplements, but would be interested in seeing a "complete" list of which modules would fit in this vision of the Known World. It might be fun to adventure in the original Known World instead of the GAZ version...
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Finarvyn

Lord Marshall, Earl of Stone Creek, C&C Society

C&C Playtester in 2003
OD&D player since 1975

The thing I like about it, at least pre-Gaz, is that it is not unlike other great settings... Blackmoor, folio Greyhawk, Wilderlands... it gives just enough to say this is it, now play. Once things start getting all filled and detailed, it takes a lot of the "specialness" out.
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Serl's Corner

I always used Greyhawk. Does the Known World material exist online? A google search turned up what appears to be a different product (related to Harn).
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"There are two kinds of people in the world: those with guns, and those who dig." - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Known world is not offically online anywhere I think. I thought WOTC got rid of all of their .pdf supplements some time ago. That being the case, the best respoitory of all things Mystara / Known World, would be this site:
http://pandius.com/

There is also another good forum here:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforu ... 59c8b3442d

And there is always:
www.dragonsfoot.org

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

serleran wrote:
The thing I like about it, at least pre-Gaz, is that it is not unlike other great settings... Blackmoor, folio Greyhawk, Wilderlands... it gives just enough to say this is it, now play. Once things start getting all filled and detailed, it takes a lot of the "specialness" out.

A great thread over at Dragonsfoot regarding pre BECMI deities and the Known World:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 71&start=0

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Thanks for the links.

I think Wizards got rid of the link to their archived downloads, but they're actually still there:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

I'm not sure if you can get to it anymore if you go in through the home page.
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"There are two kinds of people in the world: those with guns, and those who dig." - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

I like it all, even the stuff after wrath of the immortals, and the hollow world portion though I am not familiar to much with the hollow world other than what's in the poor wizard's

I always figured that if I ran some kind of pickup/emergency C&C game I would use a modified version of the Known World (by which I mean the map in the old X1 module and the capsule descriptions).

I like the Gazetteers but most of them have so much information, classes, spells, etc. that I wouldn't use in a game.
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The Known World is really cool.

I have very good memories of my Karameikos games...
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Omote wrote:
Known world is not offically online anywhere I think.

Vaults of Pandius is the Official Mystara website (according to WOTC/Hasbro anyway):

"Welcome to the official website for the Dungeons and Dragons setting of Mystara. Inside you will find a great deal of new material which furthers the Mystara setting. The official websites for the other Dungeons and Dragons settings are accessible through the Wizards of the Coast Other Worlds page and are discussed on the Other Published Worlds Message Board. "

A Shoutout? I'll give you more than that- Mystara was the BEST setting that any edition of D&D has every made- and let's face it- ever WILL make. Loved the gazeteers & poor wizard's almanacs.
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It would be very cool to see Mystara get some new love from a company.

I am working on a campaign set in the black eagle barony based loosely on the famous gold box computer game pools of radiance.

Considering WOTC's new setting for 4E is going to be Darksun, it looks like Mystara is not going to see anything new besides fan material, um, like ever.

There are numerous fan sites that have fantastic Mystara material, I'd say scoop up that stuff for your Known World fix.

Here's a damn good one:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/index.php

and there is always:
http://www.pandius.com/

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

I like elements of the Known World, but have not read much on it in quite some time so my grasp of it is slipping. I do recall liking the concept of a Hollow World, but also that it could have been "cooler" to me. Maybe that's just because I am difficult to please.
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Serl's Corner

I was thinking more of wizards diverging themselves of the property and it getting the love it needs from another group.

DS 4e, I may have to actually purchase a 4e book, especially since it sounds like they are picking up where they left off.

commanderFuron wrote:
I was thinking more of wizards diverging themselves of the property and it getting the love it needs from another group.

There was a rumor some time ago that a big offer was made for the Greyhawk property, and WOTC didn't bite. Therefore, they are going to hang onto probably every bit of it for, probably ever.

BTW, the Hollow World is awesome. Many people don't like it because it is way outside for even typical fantasy fare, but the hole (get it) Sphere of Mystera setting is pretty unique, and damn good.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

I think it would be easier for them to let go of mystara, they haven't made a product for it in a very long time. greyhawk was a living setting up until 4e.

True, but WOTC/Wizards of the Coast has Mystara all over them in the form of novels too. Plus, the company gains nothing by letting go of a property like that. I doubt any company would pay significant amounts money for the Mystara property to make the parent company (Hasbro) interested in losing the property. If that's the case, why give it up? Big Corp certainly is not going to give it up just for the betterment of the gaming community.

It's time for commanderFuron to start writing his own Mystara and making not-for-profit fan made material. I'd read it.
~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Might talk to Frank M about some of this stuff? He's one for putting up bits and bobs from his Aquaria campaign for folks to see.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[inside joke]Hmm, that would be great but Frank M. would probably just end up screwing commanderFuron again... [/inside joke].

But in all seriousness, how awesome would it be to see Frank M's Aquaria stuff in print? A big bucket of awesome if you ask me. Let's hope.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Despite my usual propensity for Neopolitian fantasy, I do have a special spot for the original Threshold, because it's where I got my start
I also have a solid respect for the boxed Mystara set. The game world is so vanilla/standard fantasy that the writers HAD to focus on politics and NPC agendas in order to create content.

For an AD&D product at that time, that was very progressive.

Too true anglefish. I also got my gaming start in the town of Threshold. I do hold that town and it's inhabitants in a very special place in my heart. One of the reasons to this day that I consider the Mentzer Expert rulebook one of, if not the, single greatest RPG product ever produced.

Long live Basic D&D!
I've got to disagree with Mystara being really vanilla though. Sure, much of the Known World/Mystara is based on Earth-like cultures, but the they sure through a mish-mash of these cultures together to form, arguably, a unique setting. Now, if you are just talking about the Kingdom of Karameikos box set, all by itself with no additional information about the setting from earlier products, then yes, I can see why Mystara seems like a very vanilla setting.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Count me as someone who got his start in Threshold...or a small keep outisde of town.
I'm on the fence about which one I like better, to be honest. I like the Gazetteer series, for certain, but sometimes I view it kind of like the Forgotten Realms - the Grey Box was great, then the FR series came out, Volo's guides, and tons and tons of additional material, and FR got blanketed with material. Now it wasn't that bad with the Known World, but the GAZ series, while great, took away some of the mystique of the Known World, I feel.
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