Traveller ? which one to get

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:56 am

I know there are some traveller fans here (yes tree I'm thinking of you) that might point me in the right direction.

Looking at the 20 for 10 sale on RPGNow, there are 4 different iteration of traveller on there. What is the skinny on them, which should I get, what is the good bad & ugly?

Thanks in advance for the info.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:45 am

Of the ones listed in the sale, this is my preferred system:
http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info. ... s_id=60330

However I am happy with Mongoose Traveller.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:22 am

He likes MegaTraveller. I prefer Classic Traveller (the little black books), though the reprints aren't so little. http://www.farfuture.net/hardcopy.html
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:06 am

Traveller wrote:
He likes MegaTraveller. I prefer Classic Traveller (the little black books), though the reprints aren't so little. http://www.farfuture.net/hardcopy.html

My answer is based on his question about the 3 PDF's on sale, my favorite version is a hybrid of Classic and Mega.
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:06 pm

I would definitely side with Treebore here - MegaTraveller is the best of those options. It was first released in 1987. The good: it collects a lot of the rules and concepts scattered across the many books in Classic Traveller and brings them into one place, along with a very nice task system.

The bad: the setting is written into the rules in a fashion that makes it something of a chore to strip out to run your game outside the Official Traveller Universe (or OTU). There is also a lot of errata. A LOT. Best place to find the most up-to-date version is this thead over at the Citizens of the Imperium (COTI) forum:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discus ... hp?t=11286

As far as the other versions: Traveller: The New Era or TNE is vastly different from all prior versions. Not only did they convert the system to the GDW "house" system (intended to be a common core set of RPG rules for all their games) but they essentially burned down the setting. It's very dark, post-apocalyptic. It also features something called "Virus" which people either accept or can't stomach due to breaking of their disbelief suspenders. I can't stand it myself, although there are a few works from it that I've mined for material. It also introduced "Fire, Fusion & Steel", which may be the ultimate sci-fi gearhead book, but is the ultimate example of letting the gearheading get in the way of the game.

"Mark Miller's Traveller" or T4 is a ghastly, errata-filled horror. About the only thing worth salvaging out of T4 is the Pocket Empires supplement. The publisher, Imperium Games, is the same entity responsible for the "Dungeons & Dragons" movie BTW - but somehow in all that they managed to not pay many of the authors of T4 material.

Of all these, go for MegaTraveller. Grab the errata and some six-siders and you're pretty much set.

If you're really interested, Mark Miller (Far Future Enterprises) sells not only the "Big Floppy Book" reprints Traveller mentions above, but also the complete collections of all these as PDFs on CD.

Mongoose Traveller is pretty good as well, though Mongoose is using it as a common engine for other science fiction settings, and thus some of the supplements contain things that break with Traveller''s traditional not-quite-hard-science universe.

On another note, Mark Miller is actually still working on Traveller 5. DO NOT spend any money on that yet, as it's basically still in a development and playtest phase.
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mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:39 pm

Good reviews CKDad

my vote is new mongoose traveller. it feels like the classic traveller but with all te megatraveller fixes. I dont think you would go wrong.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:24 pm

The capsule review thankfully omits the abomination: d20. It also omits GURPS Traveller, which is better.

The large amount of errata in MegaTraveller turned me off. There are things in the chargen system I do use in Classic. I'll have to post my house rules so you can see what I did.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:26 pm

I picked up and took a look at the Mongoose version of Traveller and while it was a nicely put together book, I ultimately went with the Far Future Enterpises reprints. It's hard to argue at getting books 0-8 in one complete volume... even if this particular book format is a bit unconventional. I picked up this compilation and the supplement compilation and feel I have all the Traveller I really need.

I have nothing against the Mongoose version but it partically came down to economics I think.
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:46 pm

Traveller wrote:
The capsule review thankfully omits the abomination: d20. It also omits GURPS Traveller, which is better.

The large amount of errata in MegaTraveller turned me off. There are things in the chargen system I do use in Classic. I'll have to post my house rules so you can see what I did.

True, though I was (mostly) limiting myself to the versions in the "20 for $10" sale for the sake of the OP.

For completeness' sake, though...

T20 is Traveller for the D20 system, but was conceived and executed early in the D20 days when you had to purchase a WOTC core player's book. On the plus side, there are aspects of T20 that made it the closest thing to CT in a while. It was also relatively errata-free, particularly compared to either T4 or MT (MT= Megatraveller, MgT or MGT = Mongoose Traveller).

On the downside, it was.... D20. Classes, levels and feats are anathema to much of the Traveller community in a way that raises howls of anguish audible all the way to the Spinward Marches. The rulebook suffered from abysmal organization and confusing layout. On top of that, the publisher (QLI) has had a number of problems that have resulted in authors not being paid, products dying on the vine, purchased merchandise never delivered, etc.

With all that, there's some good material to be mined from T20. It's default setting is the Gateway sector during the Solomani Rim War, about a century before the "Golden Era" of Classic Traveller. The Gateway Domain Sourcebook is very good, IMHO, and some of the adventures QLI put out are as well. All the material is easily converted to Classic Traveller, and some is dual-statted in CT & T20.

Consumer alert: Do not attempt to purchase product directly from QLI. However, the PDFs are available at RPGNow, DriveThru, etc. For print product you're pretty much left with the usual used-games market.

GURPS Traveller, published by SJG beginning in 1998, is set in an alternate timeline from the OTU, where Emperor Strephon is not assassinated in 1116, triggering the Rebellion that features in MT. It uses GURPS as the engine for it's mechanics (duh).

The pros: high production values for the vast majority of the products and generally high-quality writing. GURPS is a proven engine in the industry. There's been a ton of supporting products for GURPS Traveller (GT) detailing many aspects of the OTU. Loren Wiseman, one of the founders of GDW and a long-time Traveller author, was at one time employed full-time by SJG to oversee the Traveller line (he's now a freelancer but still working for SJG, among other things), so there's a great sense of continuity with what had gone before.

The cons: well, it's GURPS, and for some people that's a turn-off. This causes some translation issues for products written for other rule sets, especially where tech levels are involved. GURPS also steadfastly uses English units of measurement instead of the metric system, and $ as a unit of currency instead of Traveller Credits. Some also dislike the vision of the Imperium which has grown through the continued detailing of the OTU in GT.

Even non-GURPS aficionados (like myself) acknowledge the high quality of the majority of the GURPS line and there's a lot of value in the many, many supporting products, even if one doesn't want to play in the OTU.

I'm not sure of the status of updating the GT products for GURPS 4th edition - I believe some have been done, but that most are still around in their GURPS 3E form.

There is a version of Traveller written expressly for GURPS 4E - Interstellar Wars, set during the Terran-Vilani wars at the end of the 1st Imperium. I don't know enough about it to comment on it's quality.

Lastly (I think), there is a port of Traveller to the HERO system, done under license from Comstar Games. Again, I don't know enough about it to comment.

Probably more than anyone wants to know, but that's my CR .02.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:04 pm

Economics indeed Moriarty. I have four original copies of the Classic Traveller rules (1st Edition, Revised Edition, Starter, The Traveller Book) and the reprint volume. I will pick up Mongoose Traveller, in due time, but its tweaks are not something I really need to have to play Traveller.

BTW, my Traveller House Rules can now be downloaded. A bit of clarification is required in it. It mentions that High Guard (Book 5) is required. While I use High Guard for my starship construction, it's not required to use this house rules document.
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:38 pm

Pat - certainly a fine choice. Classic Traveller is, probably, my all-time favorite RPG. I've been bolting on the BITS task system found here: http://www.bitsuk.net/Archive/GameAids/GameAids.html
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:57 pm

I feel that mongoose traveller is the best incarnation to date followed closely by CT.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:28 pm

concobar wrote:
I feel that mongoose traveller is the best incarnation to date followed closely by CT.

I pretty much agree, its the first one since MegaTreveller where I have been buying everything released for it, even from PDF companies like Jon Blazer.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:13 am

I like Classic Traveller, but Mongoose Traveller is close enough, from what I've seen.
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:37 am

Guys thanks for the info, now to go drop another $10, well knowing me I'll see something else I "need" and spend more than a 10 spot.

Have a good one.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:14 pm

CKDad wrote:
The pros: high production values for the vast majority of the products and generally high-quality writing. GURPS is a proven engine in the industry. There's been a ton of supporting products for GURPS Traveller (GT) detailing many aspects of the OTU. Loren Wiseman, one of the founders of GDW and a long-time Traveller author, was at one time employed full-time by SJG to oversee the Traveller line (he's now a freelancer but still working for SJG, among other things), so there's a great sense of continuity with what had gone before.

It should be noted that one of the things that really made GRUPS 3e Traveller so good was the online magazine, The Travellers Aid Society that you could pretty cheaply subscribe to. It had a mound of information and when you subscribed you had access to all the old files. It was truly awesome. Something pretty big that is missing when you talk about GURPS Traveller 3e.

CKDad wrote:
I'm not sure of the status of updating the GT products for GURPS 4th edition - I believe some have been done, but that most are still around in their GURPS 3E form.

I would be highly surprised if they did do this. The conversion from 3e to 4e is quite simple, which means all of the 3e books are still easily compatible with the 4e system.

CKDad wrote:
There is a version of Traveller written expressly for GURPS 4E - Interstellar Wars, set during the Terran-Vilani wars at the end of the 1st Imperium. I don't know enough about it to comment on it's quality.

As usual the production quality is very good, but because of its limited page count and the fact it was a one book option, the setting is very limited. As, far as I know there hasn't been any pdf support for it, and I am pretty sure that SJG will no longer be able to publish Traveller material. Once their licence is up they have been told it won't be renewed. Which I'm pretty sure was fine for both parties.
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mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:45 pm

now, i also recommend starsiege. once you get the background information the conversion would be easy.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:29 pm

mordrene wrote:
now, i also recommend starsiege. once you get the background information the conversion would be easy.

Which is one of the things I plan on dooing. It's good to know I'm not the only one thinking about doing this.

Now all I need is to finish colledge, catch up on actually reading for fun, and etc etc
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:34 pm

Sir Ironside is absolutely correct about the online version of JTAS, which was a big omission. However, he speaks of it in the past tense - it's still being published on-line every two weeks. I've been a subscriber for several years.

Sir Ironside wrote:
Once their licence is up they have been told it won't be renewed. Which I'm pretty sure was fine for both parties.

Really? There was a bunch of speculation about this when Mongoose was spouting off about their license and claiming they were now the exclusive licensee for Traveller, but I thought that MWM clarified the situation - Mongoose was not exclusive and the other current licensees could continue to produce product. And that even in though some of the various licenses around will sunset (or have, or were cancelled - I don't know what happened with Comstar/Avenger), SJG's license was not. My information is about a year old, though.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:25 pm

CKDad wrote:
Sir Ironside is absolutely correct about the online version of JTAS, which was a big omission. However, he speaks of it in the past tense - it's still being published on-line every two weeks. I've been a subscriber for several years.

Cool that it is. I haven't been around SJG since I had a personal problem with some of the people that work/own SJG.

CKDad wrote:
Really? There was a bunch of speculation about this when Mongoose was spouting off about their license and claiming they were now the exclusive licensee for Traveller, but I thought that MWM clarified the situation - Mongoose was not exclusive and the other current licensees could continue to produce product. And that even in though some of the various licenses around will sunset (or have, or were cancelled - I don't know what happened with Comstar/Avenger), SJG's license was not. My information is about a year old, though.

No, that is from the horses mouth, so I know it to be true. I just can't remember when the licence ends. I'd imagine the TAS would disappear right around that time but again I never discussed this so I don't know I'm just using common sense. I know this affects more than SJG, another licence holder will also not be renewed when their licence runs out. Now, don't quote me on this, because your making me remember things I left in disgust with SJG, but I'm pretty sure that this was a condition of getting Mongoose to do Traveller. I figure Mark meant was that these other companies are not going to get their licence's pulled, they'll just run out and not be resigned. Tricky wording that, but I am not Mark Millar, nor do I know what he is thinking, but I do know that SJG Traveller is on life support.
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:55 pm

I believe you're correct in some particulars there, but wrong about SJG in specific. I'm fairly certain both Steve Jackson himself and Loren Wiseman (and perhaps Marc Miller) have said that while other licenses will sunset, SJG's will not. I can try to find a reference - could have sworn it was in one of Steve Jackson's annual messages among other places.

EDIT: Found the reference in Steve Jackson's announcement about the Mongoose license, August 5, 2007:

Quote:
Under the terms of Mongoose's license, most existing Traveller licenses will "sunset" . . . that is, they will reach the end of their current term and will not be renewed. GURPS Traveller and the Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society are specifically exempt from the "sunset" provision. Our license for those two projects runs until the end of 2011. At that time, Marc Miller will decide whether the license is renewed . . . just as he has been doing since we started. We are highly honored by this exemption. We take it as a compliment to the work that we have done so far with GURPS Traveller and JTAS. (And when I said so to Marc, he said, "Well, you should." That made my day.)

So, maybe we'll see some news sometime next year. Meanwhile, SJG continues to plug along, though they've largely become The Munchkin Company these days.
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Sir Ironside · Post by **Sir Ironside** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:21 pm

CKDad wrote:
So, maybe we'll see some news sometime next year. Meanwhile, SJG continues to plug along, though they've largely become The Munchkin Company these days.

Well my information is a couple of years old, maybe things have changed since then. Still I wouldn't hold your breath, back then it sounded like a done deal, what is said behind closed doors and what is said to the public can be very different things... and SJG's approach to the licence doesn't seem inspired.

To be honest I really don't care one way or another. If I did decide to do the whole Traveller thing again, I'll probably go the Mongoose way anyway. If for nothing else, my love for Traveller and the fact that they have added some nifty licences to the rules, Hammer Slammers, Judge Dread and Stronium Dog.
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:19 pm

Sir Ironside wrote:
Well my information is a couple of years old, maybe things have changed since then. Still I wouldn't hold your breath, back then it sounded like a done deal, what is said behind closed doors and what is said to the public can be very different things... and SJG's approach to the licence doesn't seem inspired.

To be honest I really don't care one way or another. If I did decide to do the whole Traveller thing again, I'll probably go the Mongoose way anyway. If for nothing else, my love for Traveller and the fact that they have added some nifty licences to the rules, Hammer Slammers, Judge Dread and Stronium Dog.

Indeed plus MgT adds rules for different star drives and such so it can easily be used with any setting you choose or create.
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mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:59 pm

see, all these issues are null and void once u transition to starsiege ( note i was not paid for this advertisement )

CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:07 pm

mordrene wrote:
see, all these issues are null and void once u transition to starsiege ( note i was not paid for this advertisement )

I really, really want to like StarSiege, but something in the organization of the rules is keeping me from grokking it. Maybe after 30+ years of Trav I need some deprogramming!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:37 pm

CKDad wrote:
I really, really want to like StarSiege, but something in the organization of the rules is keeping me from grokking it. Maybe after 30+ years of Trav I need some deprogramming!

Its a tool box, and you assemble things the way you want them.

Meaning it lacks its own structure, so you have to give it the structure you want.
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:22 pm

Treebore wrote:
Its a tool box, and you assemble things the way you want them.

Meaning it lacks its own structure, so you have to give it the structure you want.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing, sir. It's the actual mechanics that are throwing me for some reason. Even in simple character construction.

I certainly don't have a problem with toolbox rulesets - Savage Worlds, Thousand Suns, etc.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:41 am

I consider Savage Worlds and Thousand Suns to be far less "Tool box" than Star SIEGE.
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mordrene · Post by **mordrene** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:44 am

maybe we can help. if interested we could start a thread in the starsiege index?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:24 am

While not a real fan of the game system, I would select the version that is the oldest, not because I believe age makes it better but because I tend to find that the older it is, the more closely it resembles what the author truly wanted... that is why I don't like doing 2nd and 3rd or 10th drafts. Write once and make it good.
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