Troll Lord Games

Ok, I am hearing hype about Dragon Age but I must admit if I wanted to play an rpg based off a video game I would play 4E.

That being said, I am not asking about my own preference but what might be hot in the industry.

I could not identify with LA and it never seemed to get very popular.

I got Hackmaster Basic. (Nothing new that I don't have already houseruled) Did not appreciate the waste of page content going into silly dice rolling styles. I did appreciate the price though.

I got the Chaosim Basic Roleplaying. Have not delved deeply into it. It seems a huge tome for something titled "Basic" I understand it is a cohesive grouping of the Chaosium rules but I was hoping they could do it under 400 pages.

I got HARP but that seems a rehashed blend of Rolemaster dumbed down and material borrowed from MERP. Not to mention, I just did not get a feel from the current incarnation of ICE that they are really an active and viable company. I got the feeling they were a few guys that bought out ICE and is still keeping it alive thru web sales. Don't like their prices either. (Don't get me wrong HUGE fan of Rolemaster back in the day) Just looking for fresh material.

Pathfinder feels like 3.5 on roids.

True 20...another 3.5 type.

I hear Robin Laws has a new rpg but no details.

GURPS was fun but is far from new.

Not really interested in the nostalgia freebie games and AD&D clones but I think it's good they exist.

Is there anything out there that is offering something new or fresh?

Any support material maybe that inspires you?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Sadly, much of what you mentioned *is* what's hot in the industry.

While many may be turned off by 4E... it's still on top though Pathfinder has a large following due to it's ties to 3.x

The buzz for DragonAge is in part due to the approach they have chosen in terms of a pen-and-paper RPG as well as the stength of the video game. Aside from that, nothing really stands out in my mind. The only thing that continues to impress is the white box set edition of Swords & Wizardry that BHP is putting out that has already sold out (with the exception of 50 which are reserved to go on sale on the 20th.)

The only reason I bring that up is that it re-inforces the need / demand for this sort of product. Then again... this is OSR stuff.

I think the next big thing is just not out yet but judging by your list, you didn't mention Savage Worlds... if looking for something to try, may as well give that a whirl.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

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I think the Song of Ice and Fire RPG from Green Ronin is pretty well done. In particular, the concept of all the characters being part of a noble house, and the mechanics for creating the noble house and it's background, are very very good indeed. It's also the first RPG I can recall to include a mass combat system (for battles between tens, hundreds or thousands of opponents on each side) in the core rules. There's also a set of "social combat" mechanics for handling intrigues.
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"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

At all interested in superheroes rpgs?
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Basic Action Games http://www.bashrpg.com

Check us out for free demos and downloads or visit us onFacebook.

Beat to Quarters looks interesting (to me). A Napoleonic game, which is not too often done. Troupe playing style. Card-based mechanic. All pretty fresh stuff.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... =65115{1}1
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Drug of choice...coffee

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i give a plug to chaosium's basic roleplaying game. you can download a quickstart that is basically the entire rules. the 400+ pages is info for settings and options on what u would like in your game.

Stainless wrote:
Beat to Quarters looks interesting (to me). A Napoleonic game, which is not too often done. Troupe playing style. Card-based mechanic. All pretty fresh stuff.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... =65115{1}1

Same company also does Duty & Honour. While Beat to Quarters lets the players be officers/crew on a British warship in the Napoleonic era, Duty & Honour lets the players be army officer/soldiers. If the first lets you be Horatio Hornblower or Jack Aubrey, the latter lets you be Richard Sharpe. Duty & Honour also has a few almanacs, which add new rules and setting info. Haven't played them yet, but they both look well done.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=58749
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Sir Dachda McKinty,

Margrave and Knight of Portlandia
Castles & Crusades Society

Does the market have room for another frpg?

Are there too many small "hobby" publishers already?

Is there room for another?

I see everyone with similar intentions but working on separate projects.

Is the future small indie or mega corporation?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

I'm of the belief that there is always room for another FRPG. But, that being said, most publishers need to realize that they are only generating short term income at best since it is a rarity for many of these games to garner any sort of actual staying power.

I'd like to see the future of gaming not be small indie companies, but medium indie companies. Each with their own house game. I love variety.

3e was the era of the megacorp and while many smaller companies fed on the glut and prospered, I didliked what it did to gaming on a whole. It turned the gaming industry into a d20 industry, largely devoid of alternatives.

With the advent of 4e, we've seen a shift back to an actual gaming industry instead of every company and it's mom simply feeding off WotC's prize cow. To me, that is an extremely good thing. I don't know how it's treating the industry as a whole right now but as a gamer I'm seeing a larger variety of games coming out and (this is the important part to me) encountering more and more players willing to try different games.

Good times. Good times.

There's a lot of different factors at work here.

The bad news is that the overall population of tabletop RP gamers (including those using virtual tabletops) is in decline. This limits how much money there is to be spent on product, which is a natural limit on the size of the market and how many profitable companies there can be. We're also seeing considerable shrinkage in the number of retailers.

Gamers also expect a certain degree of polish in their products now. Stuff that I snapped up (or wanted to) in the late 70s and early 80s wouldn't even merit a look today due to low production values. Take a look at old Judges Guild D&D or Game Lords Traveller products, many of which had great content between the covers - could you see anyone actually shelling out money for that today?

Lastly, printing costs have been climbing astronomically.

The good news: I think the revolution in publishing that's occurring before our eyes (and which has been underway for at least 10 years) means that the barriers to entry are once again falling. This means that small operations can turn out - at least in electronic and print-on-demand formats - polished, professional-looking products, available instantly or within a very short time. This means the small publishers - for many of which this is a part-time endeavor - can find an audience and a niche in the marketplace. Print's a bit tougher for these guys but still viable via self-publishing. Getting into distribution has other hurdles (ask Coleston or Moriarity about that!)

It's a tougher road for the mid-size company, I think, simply because it costs more than a lot of people realize to run a small business on a full time basis. This means there's a certain minimum amount of revenue you have to be making in order to stay in operation. Just how much that is varies, depending in large part on where you're located - I don't think TLG could afford to be in business if they were located in central Maryland instead of Little Rock, for example, as the cost of living here is much higher. Mid-sized companies also have to produce print products and keep them in the retail distribution network in order to be viable. As TLG shows, it is possible to make it, just tricky.

BTW - I think most gamers would be shocked at just how few people are employed full-time producing games outside of the very biggest publishers.

So - I think for the foreseeable future we're looking at many small publishers, mostly part-timers, with a handful of slightly bigger publishers with small permanent staffs and a string of part-timers writing for them, and one or two very big (by game industry standards) firms.
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"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

These small guys...indie guys...and cyber publishers have their place and I am glad they exist but...

I went to Drivethrurpg and was just overwhelmed with sensory overload. Not just the games but the companies were so numerous I just gave up and browsed elsewhere. I have no interest in weeding thru thousands of publications hoping to find something that inspires me only to find no one ever heard of it much less are interested in playing it. The greatest rules in the world are of zero value if all they do it take up shelf space and never gets played. The value of a game to me is how much playtime and enjoyment I get out of it and definately not how fancy the book looks.

As far as polish goes...we need to get over that!

I have lost count of how many useless "polished" products I bought only to sit on my shelf to collect dust.

Once I got past the full color and shiny pages I realized I was left with forced plots, and shallow content. So it had a lot of spit and polish but with the inflated price and rehashed unoriginal material I was left longing for quality I could afford.

I am really at the point that I dismiss the full color 50 dollar books as junk any more.

I also have a different view than dangerdwarf. I hated having to learn "yet another complicated system" just so my characters could wear victorian era clothes, or run the wild west or whatever. I don't roleplay because I like learning abstract game systems. I roleplay because I like roleplaying. I don't need ANY rules to do that, but I DO need a common game that many folks are willing to play.

The OGL gave us that common game. So I hung up my dis-continued and defunct game system for something we all could enjoy, or at least have heard of.

4E seems to have sunk that ship and now everyone is clamoring to release old old old stuff rewritten and re-boxed. I enjoy nostalgia...but i think that the past is not the future of our hobby.

Honestly the retailers are going because the customers left first.

We have "Old School" which is mostly dismissed or overlooked by the newer 3.x generation, then we have the kids "powering up" with whatever you want to call 4E, and we have the indie and others that always were fringe. (No offense).

Quite honestly if our favorite hobby is going to survive and prosper for newer generations it is up to us as gamers to make it happen.

We need to stop being "Old School Only" or "3.x exclusive" we need to stop dividing into smaller and smaller special interests and unite and rally under something that may not be "Just for me and my tastes" and something that the masses could and would enjoy.

We need to share our hobby with kids...newbies...and the uninititiated. We need to bridge the gap between Old goats/crunchy gamers/and wowcrowds.

I don't want another "phenomena" like TSR nor do I want megacorps doling me pablum. I also don't want to wade thru the waters of 6000 small companies all with different games. I just want a hobby that won't be pulled out from under me for a new edition or because the company went belly up.

Anyway...sorry about the soapbox. I just am growing concerned that our time is numbered.
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

I think we are at a transition period but we need to look at a couple things:

1) The OSR/Free Stuff is still off most gamers radar. Most that are not involved in the net communities and keep up may have an idea this stuff exists but most gamers do not. The common figure is that for one gamer active in communities there are approximately 20 that are not. For example our 1755 registered members are probably only 10-20% of C&C players. ( I would err closer to 10%)

So, any perceived crowd or movement must be taken with a grain of salt.

2) 4e seems to have met with a lukewarm reception. I say this since some love it and some hate it but, we have no real numbers to know who is playing except by head counting in your area. I have seen about a 50-50 take on 4e. It's not a failure but it is not a success.

With the addition of the GSL and internet community rules snafus by WOTC and the emergence of Pathfinder I think 4e will not do as well as 3e and have developers looking to other waters.

This leads to...

3) Table top is not what it once was. Blame computers, stigmas still attached to role-players or anything you want. All hobbies go through this. Are we a dying breed? No, I don't think so but, the landscape has changed to include card and board games. Almost making us 'gamers' again.

So what's next?

I don't know but I figure there will be an increase and then die off in the number of clones leveling the playing field as one or two do well enough to keep momentum. One game may break out into the game-shop world but it is up to consumers to decide how well it does.

The rise of games like the Dragon Age RPG and a shift back to rules lite games ( Neo-classical?) like C&C looks to be something that may happen depending on how well both games do.

This is all speculation, of course but my feelings nonetheless.
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The Lord of Ravens
My blog

Joe wrote:
We need to stop being "Old School Only" or "3.x exclusive" we need to stop dividing into smaller and smaller special interests and unite and rally under something that may not be "Just for me and my tastes" and something that the masses could and would enjoy.

Problem with that is that there is a huge diversity in what gamers enjoy in their game. So much that you'll never find a game that will encompass such a wide spectrum of players that it will bridge the gap. In fact, many of us like a multitude of games for no other reason than to see different ways to accomplish the same thing.

We don't need a vanilla middle ground game for the masses to rally behind. We need to simply embrace the title "gamers" as whole and realize that whether we play C&C, D&D, nWoD, d20, Palladium, whatever; we still got a mega crap-ton of things in common with all those other gamer geeks out there.

But, human beings are socially cliquish critters. Its not surprising that in a hobby built around socially interactive games we find cliques.

So, we should all go out of our way and give our local w3eners a hug.

Lets see, Starblazer Adventure, FATE based, Qin, the Warring States, EPICrpg from Darkmatter Studios, I think the newest Shadowrun is the best yet, I think you may want to look at actually playing Hackmaster Basic, we have enjoyed it a lot, Twilight 2013, Twilight Imperium, Diaspora, Aces and Eights, and I am sure there are others.

Plus I have also been greatly enjoying the newish Mongoose Traveller.

I am also looking forward to Runequest II, the redone Judge Dread, and I think Dragon Age is going to be fun too.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

As a related note here, Mongoose Publishing, which has been around for a few years and has been growing recently (largely due to the Traveller line, their biggest seller), has just laid off two of their full-time employees (Gareth Hanrahan and Richard Ford) with very little notice to them.
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=495312

Matt Sprange has been crowing a lot since the release of Traveller that Mongoose was recession-proof, growing, etc. They joined the Rebellion Group, announced plans for new offices and a dedicated convention centre, but it seems he was, as usual, talking out of his posterior.
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Drug of choice...coffee

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Quote:
We need to stop being "Old School Only" or "3.x exclusive" we need to stop dividing into smaller and smaller special interests and unite and rally under something that may not be "Just for me and my tastes" and something that the masses could and would enjoy.

With all respect, there's too many differences in taste out there for this to be a realistic goal. I frankly think it's a good thing to have diversity in the marketplace, because it broadens the appeal of the hobby to the broadest range of people.

Quote:
We need to simply embrace the title "gamers" as whole and realize that whether we play C&C, D&D, nWoD, d20, Palladium, whatever; we still got a mega crap-ton of things in common with all those other gamer geeks out there.

DD nails it. There is no One True RPG, nor One True Way to Roleplay. If people are gaming and having fun doing it, that's the most important thing.
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"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."

For examples, I play L5R (Legend of the 5 Rings) because the rules do so much to bring out the uniqueness of the setting. Its far better than the D20 Rokugan game I played in, and I thought that was a lot of fun until I was persuaded to play L5R!

Same thing for Shadowrun, the way the mechanics works goes a long ways to giving SR its "feel".

Qin the Warring States is similar, so I think a "universal" system that everyone plays would be very boring, and I am very grateful for the diversity!
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

All excellent points guys.
There are just so many games to play and very little time.
Too much difference in taste, too many different styles.

Yet, if that was truly the case, why does there always seem to be one big top game and then a spattering of other games?

For whatever reason, D&D in it's many incarnations has always been the top dog.

But you are correct! Each game is unique in its playstyle and feel. Its just been my experience that it was hard to find players for games other than the more popular. I was a huge Rolemaster fan and I found myself playing 2E just because thats what everyone played.

I am afraid I won't be able to play as many as I would like.

So suggestions?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim

'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell

Another nod here for AEG's Legend of the 5 Rings... a unique yet uncomplicated feel to the mechanics which really heightens the atmosphere of the game. Has anyone tried its sister game, Legend of the Burning Sands? I have been curious about that for a while.

For multi-genre, I am loving Savage Worlds... it really is "fast, furious, fun" and prep time for GMs is minimal (GMS are encouraged not to create NPCs by building them from the ground up and levelling them up, but rather "just give them what you think they should have"), and the non-denominational feel to the writing makes it a blast if you are designing something as off the wall as D&D meets Pirates with a dash of Greek mythology and lasers (a campaign world I actually ran with for a while). Another plus for SW is the inclusion of mass battle rules right there in the little $10 core book. OH, and... did I mention the $10 core book?

Joe, just look around till you find one you like and play that. Don't worry about what all's out there. Find one you like, play that, and when you got that one down, maybe look for a different game. It doesn't have to be new and shiny - just different.

As an aside, I think of d20 much like I do communism. It looks good on paper, but in practice it was rough. It may have worked too well in some cases. Publishers didn't stretch their imagination, instead taking whatever property they had and converting it over to d20, wholesale. That wasn't its original intention. And some things just didn't work as a d20 game. I think the idea of everyone playing a d20 game was mighty grand idea. And in an utopian society, it would be great. But, fortunately, d20 wasn't everyone's cup of tea. Even for someone like me, who does enjoy it, I find other systems just as enjoyable (GURPS, nWoD, C&C, Dragon Age, just to name a few). I don't hide my affection for d20 but, sadly, d20 almost ruined the gaming ecosystem.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Lord Dynel wrote:
I think the idea of everyone playing a d20 game was mighty grand idea.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA!!!

Thats just EVIL!

DangerDwarf wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA!!!

Thats just EVIL!

I'm not saying that I wanted that to happen, or that I thought it a good idea. But I think that was the overarching plan - it would be a perfect world with everyone gaming in a d20 environment. It's not evil, unless you're thinking of it in a Stepford kind of way.
I still believe that, at it's core, d20 is a good system. Too good - rules for everything (and I mean everything) and monsters following the same rules as characters are it's biggest downfalls, in my opinion. That and the era is ushered it - the Era of Player Entitlement.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Lord Dynel wrote:
It's not evil, unless you're thinking of it in a Stepford kind of way.

I'm don't think there is any other way of thinking about it.

I joined the Crusade, as in picked up C&C, to escape d20

Hrolfgar wrote:
I joined the Crusade, as in picked up C&C, to escape d20

Nothing wrong with that, hoss. I needed a break from d20 also and add in that I felt betrayed by WotC (and my gut feeling that 4e was going to be rubbish in my eyes) and C&C was my savior. I've since forgiven 3.5, as I really do like that edition. Much like 2nd Edition to me in that once it's kept simple without all the extra stuff from other sourcebooks (the hundreds of feats, spells, prestige classes,etc.) it's pretty good in my eyes. But I don't think 3.5 will ever be my game-of-choice anymore and Wizards, unless they do something drastic, will never dominate my gaming budget or my bookshelf again.

But it's C&C now. Long live the Crusade!
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

I am a self-admitted game system addict. I find that each system has a flavor, and just like food, I get a hankerin' for something different every now and then, though I have my favorites.

I have been messing around with the new Dragon Age boxed set, and it is pretty awesome stuff. I am also going through my Gurps Dungeon Fantasy stuff, looking at doing a major rewrite of the rules to make it less crunchy. ( of course, I then thought, why do all that work and not get paid?).
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When in doubt as to who is in charge on the battlefield, listen to the man with the bloodiest sword.

Dragon Age rpg is great stuff. I'm really lovin it. Earthdawn 3rd ed. rawks the house as well. Its being printed by Mongoose. And C&C is righteous (had to give props).
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"Ethics are so annoying. I avoid them on principle."-Bucky Katt

"You can wordify anything if you just verb it."-again, Bucky Katt

Mongoose has Earthdawn? I'm glad to be sticking to 1st edition of that.
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Serl's Corner

serleran wrote:
Mongoose has Earthdawn? I'm glad to be sticking to 1st edition of that.

Only to print it. They have nothing to do with the rules set.

To chime in, the new Mongoose Runequest II is a pretty nifty game.