Troll Lord Games

I highly doubt the Core 4E books are out of print already.

Amazon doesn't have it as out of print.
http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons- ... 740&sr=8-1

I've played 4e a number of times. I dislike it. I'll play it if nothing else is available for instance if I'm at a local convention. I strongly prefer 3.5/Pathfinder.

Mike
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"I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge, and no one may pass. We live for the One we die for the One"

Marcus B5

qstor wrote:
I highly doubt the Core 4E books are out of print already.

They're not. Though no more 4E core books are going to be printed in the near future (they HAVE indicated as much), WotC still has a kilometric buttload of them. They are not going to run out of supplies any time soon. Which is not such a good thing, when you think about it. Reminds me of Ryan Dancey visiting the TSR warehouse for the first time in 1998.
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

Ok, so those books are not OOP now. But later this month and next month (I think), 4.5E releases new PHBs for fighter types and then cleric types. These are called Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms, and Heroes of Fallen Lands. Top that off with the new Rules Compendium and the new and updated DM Screen, and voila! New edition.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
Ok, so those books are not OOP now. But later this month and next month (I think), 4.5E releases new PHBs for fighter types and then cleric types. These are called Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms, and Heroes of Fallen Lands. Top that off with the new Rules Compendium and the new and updated DM Screen, and voila! New edition.

~O

The question I still have is are they actually changing rules, or just how the rules are presented and available?
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Heroes of the Fallen Lands, the first volume, will include two builds of Fighters that do not use Daily powers, but instead use stances, which are like continuous at-wills the warrior can shift back and forth, if you will, and auras, which are actually not like actual supernatural auras, but area martial effects around the fighter if you will, like for instance disrupting all the enemies around you with fences and moves, providing penalties to all, that kind of thing.

Also in Heroes of Fallen Lands are the Cleric, the Thief (yes, the THIEF, a build of Rogue that does not use Dailies either) and the Mage (i.e. Wizard).

In Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, you've got:

Druid (sentinel), leader

Paladin (cavalier), defender

Ranger (hunter), controller

Ranger (scout), striker

Warlock (hexblade), striker

Links to the two Fighter builds of Essentials:

The Knight http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... p/20100723

The Slayer http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... p/20100806

Contents of Fallen Lands (ToC):

Contents:

Introduction

Chapter 1: Game Overview

Chapter 2: Making Characters

Chapter 3: Understanding Powers

Chapter 4: Character Classes

Cleric (Warpriest - Sun or Storm domain)

Fighter (Knight or Slayer)

Rogue (Thief)

Wizard (Mage - either Enchantment School, Evocation School or Illusion School)

Chapter 5: Character Races

Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf, Halfling, Human

Chapter 6: Skills

Chapter 7: Feats

Chapter 8: Gear and Weapons

I may have stated earlier that there were no magic items - I was wrong, magic items are listed in this chapter. There is about a page for each slot - with 2-3 different items (each with several levels), but it's really the most basic of basic stuff

GLOSSARY

INDEX
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

Okay. So what's the point of my previous post, right?

Well. Essentials *is* 4E. It's not a variant or anything. What it does, however, is reprint the rules after 37 pages of errata through DDI, strip them down to the bare minium (hence the name), add builds to classes that attempt to make a few steps towards us traditionalists to get us back in the game, and present the whole thing through a series of boxed sets and cheap paperbacks, for a limited amount of products total (10 products in the Essentials series, which includes totally unnecessary stuff like the dungeon tiles, the D&D dice and such BS).

So this is it. This is Essentials. Oh and since I forgot, here are the products that truly matter:

Heroes of the Fallen Lands

Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom

DM's Kit (boxed set)

Monster Vault (boxed set)

Rules Compendium

With perhaps the Starter Set, the Red Box, for kids and newbies to RPGs.

I'm intrigued, personally. I'm going to check it out.
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

OK, you intrigued me, because that sounds like a 4E I can like.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Not happenin for me...though nice information. Pass.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Not trying to sell the game or anything. Just spreading information so we can all make informed choices.
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

Well, say what you will but if they have changed the character classes (they updated them), corrected and changed some of the rules, it seems like a new edition to me.

I flipped through the the updated PHB "Essentials: Heroes of the Fallen Lands." This book contained many of the player related rules for the game and for the cleric, fighter, rogue and wizard. I also took a good long look at the new Rules Compendium. The Rules Compendium IS the rules for the 4th edition game.

These two book contain a lot of text. The layout is nice, and there is enough white-space to not drive the reader crazy, but the text/rules are pretty dense reading.

While there is nothing in these books that make me want to play the 4.X edition game, I got to tell you, the new books are slick looking. The artwork inside is new-school, but impressive. Also, the new 4th edition books are... digest-sized!* Now that is pretty cool. The book is a softcover book that retails for $19.95, which doesn't look like it will stand up to heavy use at all. But, for a 350+ page softcover book in digest size, the binding is nice. The feel of the pages and covers is also quite nice.

Again, not a game that I want to play, but the presentation and the price tag is pretty enticing.
*Overall the books seems a just a tad larger than true-digest zied, but they are close.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Actually, I'm a bit interested in the Rules Compendium for a variety of reasons. Question I have is this:

What exactly is in it... I know the rules are in it but does that mean it gives the basic skinny on classes and has a monster section?

If so, that would be absolutely awesome.

However, I expect that the two Hero / Player Essentials are covering the classes. My main questions is the monsters. It would probably make sense that all that is in the Monster Box Set (aka Monster Vault).

I'm not sure where what the DM's kit is all about... maybe that's basically building upon the Basic Essentials set?

Can any of my fellow Crusaders help shed some light on this for me?

Thanks,

M
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http://www.arcanacreations.com

The new Rules Compendium seems to be just the rules of the game, that is all the rules that don't specifically have to do with classes, race, etc. This book covers skills, skill challanges, combat, etc, etc. All class-based and race rules are in the player's books.

The Monster Vault box set is a 256 page monster book in digest format and a ton of counters and map sheets for the monsters in the included box.

The DM Tool Kit that is a box set (like the Monster Vault) that includes a 256 page DMG, plus counters, adventure book (or booklets), and the like.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
The new Rules Compendium seems to be just the rules of the game, that is all the rules that don't specifically have to do with classes, race, etc. This book covers skills, skill challanges, combat, etc, etc. All class-based and race rules are in the player's books.

The Monster Vault box set is a 256 page monster book in digest format and a ton of counters and map sheets for the monsters in the included box.

The DM Tool Kit that is a box set (like the Monster Vault) that includes a 256 page DMG, plus counters, adventure book (or booklets), and the like.

~O

Thanks!

Hmm... sounds like the two players books, the rules compendium, and the Monster's kit is all you need for a complete set. Arguably the DM Tool kit is not so useful. Of course, knowing past tendencies, the treasure distribution tables will be in the DM's kit meaning that, like the DMG for 4E, there is only about 6 pages or so (of tables) 'needed' for the game.

This approach is still more palatable than than the initial 4th ed paradigm though.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

There are 10 products scheduled for the essentials line. Strangely the D&D product Manager says there are 8 classes in the Essentials starter. Maybe he misremembered and one of the other products will have the 4 additional classes?

Anyways, it looks like I will check this stuff out, via Amazon at least. So if I don't like it at least I paid minimal money for it. Sounds like there will be plenty of tiles and tokens that I will like.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Treebore wrote:
There are 10 products scheduled for the essentials line. Strangely the D&D product Manager says there are 8 classes in the Essentials starter. Maybe he misremembered and one of the other products will have the 4 additional classes?

Anyways, it looks like I will check this stuff out, via Amazon at least. So if I don't like it at least I paid minimal money for it. Sounds like there will be plenty of tiles and tokens that I will like.

The 'starter' would be the initial red box set wouldn't it? Initially I thought that the two players essentials books expanded upon the starter boxset (actually all the followup books do that). When I first heard snippets about the line, I was initially thinking about just getting the starter box set and the rules compendium thinking that I should be set. Very basic classes and races... small selection of critters but expanded mechanics in the Rules Compendium.

Perhaps I was dreaming in technicolor ... Since a few comments have given the new red box a lukewarm review, I'm still not sure what I'll be doing here.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Turn awaaaay from the light...
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

I found some place giving 30% off on Ravenloft, and decided to order the Essentials Starter box from them as well. I wish I could have got them form Amazon, but they are currently only offering a 6% discount on the Ravenloft boxed set. Still, I saved $15 plus tax, and driving an hour each way, to get it from the nearest store near me that carries these products.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

The Starter Set (Red Box) really is aimed at people who have never played an RPG before. Only purchase it if you're interested in the adventure included in it and some such. The particulars. Or you see it as a collector item. You don't need it to play Essentials.

To play Essentials, if you are a...
Player: just purchase Heroes of the Fallen Lands, and the Rules Compendium.
DM: purchase the DM's Kit and Rules Compendium (Plus Heroes of... if you want to have the player material, races classes etc also).

That's about it. All the rest is tiles and stuff. All you might want to get from there as DM is the Monster Vault, with more creatures, counters and stuff, which won't release right this month.
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

I did not like 4E as it was originally presented. The classes and such in here are not "built" the same way, so I want to see if I can find this approach entertaining, where as straight 4E I did not. If I don't like it, like you pointed out, there are counters and tiles in it, so I won't consider it a total loss if 4E still fails to grab me.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

My red box just shipped -I am basically acting as if I was picking up the game for the first time and was a complete RPG newbie here, to try to grasp the logic of the game and evaluate whether that'd make a cool gift for my nephews or not-. I'll let you guys know what I think.
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Building: The Tower of St. Makhab - The Medival Eurth

Yeah, mine shipped yesterday, along with the Ravenloft board game.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Red box just shipped today. Will likely see it tuesday. I have to many other things going on to run a 4e game right now. But I'll defintenly read through it though.
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The only "Red Box" I'm interested in was written by Mentzer. But even then, I prefer the Moldvay/Cook B/X to BECMI.

Thror, you're too "New School" for me.
OD&D plus Supplements all the way.
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My small homage to E.G.G.

Here's an interesting bit of news...

So, the game distributer ACD is reporting that the new DarkSun campaign setting is out of print from the publisher. Sounds wacky, but if this is true, why would WOTC put out a book that is immediately OOP? I'll tell you why, because the new Essential Line is a new edition. It seems that DarkSun has been pretty popular, but yet the new game is OOP? If ACD is correct, I bet you that DS is being rewritten to play perfectly from the new Essential Line.

Just my theory.

~O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

It's WotC's version of a Ponzi scheme...
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

I wouldn't say essentials is a new edition I would after having read it say it is at least a new printing or possibly a edition upgrade in the same spirit that 3.5 was when compared to 3.0

Having read through it for a couple days now I have to admit that I kinda like most of the new changes.
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It would not be surprising that, if Essentials is successful, future products will take its methodology. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the concept but the boxes might be worth having because they seem to be quite durable.
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Serl's Corner

Just as a FYI the essentials books are pretty much the cheapest core rulebooks on the market at 19.95USD each. 19.95USD for a 365 pg book that is nicely formatted and full of flavorful full color art is a steal in today's market. I think it is a safe bet that WotC is taking a loss to move these and get people into the new edition.

I could be wrong.
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My copy has yet to arrive, but I am hopeful that it and Ravenloft will get here tomorrow. Far more Ravenloft than Essentials. From what I have read it is just prebuilt classes that still follow 4E rules. If so I still won't be a fan of 4E. I hear good things about the tiles inside though!
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames