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Looking to play some C&C by post! 
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 91
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hmm that's not quite right Shawn. It wouldn't be 6. The challenge class would be determined by either 12 or 18 plus and - modifiers. An example would be if the orcs were level 2 alert guards at a camp. If one had dex as a prime and sneak as a class ability the challenge class would be 12+2=14 or higher needed to beat +/- any other mods remember a Ranger often wears far more than leather armor like a Rogue will so this is one place arbitrary mods come into play.

So then the player rolls d20+attribute mod + level(if class ability)+/- any racial mods.

If the player attempting it doesn't have dex as prime then the challenge class for them is 18+2=20 or better to beat.

Unlike DC in normal d20 CC varies from character to character.

At any rate I'm surprised STR is the prime for Ranger anyway, perhaps the game sees them more as a dual wielding swordsman than an archer. Or they didn't want the Rogue to get stiffed like he is in d20 D&D by others being able to do the same things he can often better.


Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:02 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
Quote:
hmm that's not quite right Shawn. It wouldn't be 6. The challenge class would be determined by either 12 or 18 plus and - modifiers. An example would be if the orcs were level 2 alert guards at a camp. If one had dex as a prime and sneak as a class ability the challenge class would be 12+2=14 or higher needed to beat +/- any other mods remember a Ranger often wears far more than leather armor like a Rogue will so this is one place arbitrary mods come into play.



You are right, I didn't apply any mods for the orcs, it was just a quick illustration that I didn't spend a whole lot of time constructing (basically I was making it all up as I was writing) and I was assuming that both characters were essentially wearing leather armor (most of the rangers I play do)

If I were playing a ranger I would prefer that my primes be DEX and WIS since it fits the ranger lifestyle better. I could maybe see CON figuring into the mix too (living outdoors and all that) STR would be important to be sure, but not vital


Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:14 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 91
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ah i see.


Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:43 pm
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Red Cap

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
Robocoastie wrote:
The cleric still may not be better at move silently because its not a class skill therefore the cleric wouldn't be able to add level the formula would only be d20+dex mod vs. d20+dex mod+level

(this btw is only one of many uses for DEX, AC being a big one which clerics do need and any other arbitrary things which the CK determines can be accomplished via a dex check).



Ah, I see about the level thing, but assuming the Cleric is 1st level and the Ranger is 3rd, the ranger needs to roll a 12 to succeed with an 18 Dex to move silently. The Cleric, meanwhile, a 1st level initiate with a 10 Dex prime also succeeds on a 12. Compared to the more experienced, more naturally dextrous ranger who has been training for years to move silently...

It has been my pet peeve with the siege engine since its creation. Letting class abilities count as prime completely fixes the problem, though. The cleric will still be better at dancing, balancing on a ship, etc than the Ranger, not to mention Dex saving throws, just not better than the ranger at his own class skills.

This is also important because the ranger has class abilities tied to 2 attributes while his prime is forced to be something that is not tied to class abilities, making human rangers far better than elf rangers, who have to choose between wisdom or dexterity depsite say an extra 50 years of life experience.

But even for human rangers, the system "ties their hands" to choose Dex and Wis as primes (if they don't want a -30% penalty on all their class ability checks) even if they would have rather played a tough, charasmatic or intelligent ranger. Having class abilities be prime frees you to choose primes you want for Roleplaying purposes, instead of "metagaming" purposes.

For some classes, this is a non-issue-- their clas s abilities are tied to their prime, giving them the freedom to pick whatever they want for their other prime(s). I just think that rangers and rogues should have the same option for customization as fighters and clerics when it comes to choosing prime attributes.
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Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:58 pm
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Red Cap

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
ShawnG wrote:
A level 2 ranger with 18 dex and a level 2 cleric with 10dex prime are attempting to sneak by some orcs. assuming the cleric isn't wearing some godawful metal armor which I would apply a further penalty to, the Ranger would need to beat a 12 modified by +4 for the DEX, and +2 for the ranger level so would need to roll a 6, the cleric would need to roll a 12 unmodified, so would have a significantly harder time of it, but still would be doable. I have no problem with this situation as it stands, because moving silently is a common skill that any child might develop somewhat in the act of growing up.



Bear with me, I don't have a 2nd Printing of the PhB, but did they change an 18 stat to a +4 bonus? In 1st printing it was +3. (16-17 was +2, 13-15 was +1, and 9-12 was +0, just like in Basic D&D).

If it is a +3 bonus, the ranger would have a total of +5 (2 for level, 3 for stat) vs TN 18, requiring a roll of 13. The cleric, assuming he only wore some leather armor, would have a total bonus of 0, but his roll would be vs TN 12, giving him a 5% advantage over the ranger.

I understand that primes represent lots of training, as opposed to natural ability (that is what the score determines), but so do class abilities, as I understand it. A person might learn to move silently as a child (Dex prime) but so does a ranger (class ability).

However, from your suggestion, I will happily take Dex as my class prime over STR (this makes more sense for a halfling anyway), which makes the prime/non prime class ability thing a moot point in my case. However, it might still matter to others, especially if someone is going rogue wiith a race other than human.
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Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:10 pm
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Red Cap

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
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Altering my character in the following ways now:

Dex is prime, and spells prepared:

Unless otherwise stated, I always prepare the following spells: Animal Friendship and GoodBerry.

I am waiting to find a wolf to have for an animal companion show up so I can cast Animal Friendship on him. Once this happens, I will switch the Animal Friendship for a more useful spell, like Calm Animals or Entangle.

For 0th Level Spells, I have First Aid, Endure Elements, and Detect Poison, just about every day. If we are in a desert or something, I will switch the Detect Poison for Create Water.
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Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:22 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 91
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and in d20 humans get more training points, there's always been something to make humans better over demi-humans to balance out the lack of infravision and other special abilities of the demi ones.


Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:23 am
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 68
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I must be playing too much NWN2 on my PC. the modifier is a +3 not +4 (BAD d20!)

I see what you are saying, the siege engine was crafted for simplicity and ease of play, not ultimate realism. I'm not going to add a ton of house rules to this thing. The advantage of having the class abilities is primarily that you can improve on them. the situation would be drastically different at 8th level for example.

I do have a quick and dirty critical hit rule-natural 20 on the attack roll does double damage, natural 1 fumbles. (I was contemplating using my old MERP critical hit tables, but that would be too evil )

I would like to start actual play by December 1, so If I could have the last couple characters finished up, we will get rolling!

To refine the setting a bit, I am tired of the old "you all meet at an Inn" bit, so I was planning on starting the campaign with all of you travelling on the road south of Garham to Yggsburgh. Rumors of travellers being waylaid have led you to travel together for safety. It is Late Autumn, so make sure to have the proper gear for the elements!


Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:29 am
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 91
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cool. Since my character is from Ygs area should he have been travelling and on the way back with the others? He doesn't have to be from the area its just I didn't know where else to place him.

Also, are we going to play it here in a big message thread or a site similar to playbyweb.com where you get your own individual threads by topic or yahoo/google/msn group or?

thx,

Rob


Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:11 am
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Ungern

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 98
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I didn't receive a reply to my post on the previous page, but if you're looking for someone else, I've come up with the following character:

Kelvan Ironfist

Dwarf Fighter 2

Neutral Good

Str 18 (+3)*

Int 10

Wis 15 (+1)

Dex 9

Con 18 (+3)*

Cha 10

AC 16

Armor: coat of plates, medium steel shield, normal helm. (EV=6)

Weapons (EV=7)

warhammer (+6 to hit, 1d8+4 damage)

shortbow (+2 to hit, 1d6 damage)

dagger (+5 to hit, 1d4+3 damage)

Racial & Class Abilities:

Animosity (elves) -2 cha checks

Deepvision

Determine Depth & Direction

Enmity (goblins/orcs) -4 cha checks

Defensive Expertise (giants/ogres) +4 AC

Resistant to Arcane magic +3

Resistant to Fear +2

Resistant to Poison +2

Stonecraft (Wisdom)

Weapon Specialization: warhammer

Languages: Common, Dwarvish, Halfling, Elvish, Gnome, Goblinoid, Ogrish, Giant, Troll

Size: small

Move: 20'

ER: 17

Encumbrance: 23 (Light)

Equipment: (Total EV= 10)

Backpack (back)

large belt pouch (belt)

flint and steel (belt pouch)

1 week rations (backpack)

canteen (belt)

quiver, dozen (back)

20 arrows (quiver)

hammer (backpack)

spikes (5) (backpack)

tunic

trousers

belt

cloak

boots, heavy

17gp

7sp


Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
Quote:
I didn't receive a reply to my post on the previous page, but if you're looking for someone else, I've come up with the following character:



Sorry for not responding, you are certainly welcome to play!


Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:15 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
Robocoastie wrote:
cool. Since my character is from Ygs area should he have been travelling and on the way back with the others? He doesn't have to be from the area its just I didn't know where else to place him.

Also, are we going to play it here in a big message thread or a site similar to playbyweb.com where you get your own individual threads by topic or yahoo/google/msn group or?

thx,

Rob



It's cool that you have been travelling, and on the way back, that works just fine.

I would like to play here if we can. One of the other sites would be cool just for dice servers etc... but If there are no problems I would like to play here just for convenience. Two issues would be If I feel the "honor system" dice rolling isn't working out, or we get unwanted visitors. Just from lurking here a while this seems like most posters here are respectful and fair, so I don't forsee any problems.
The other reason is that this is the trolls web site, and having a good game going on on this site could help us bring in new recruits to the cause.


Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:26 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 20660
Location: Arizona and St Louis
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Here will be OK. Can you give format examples of how you like us to show different things, such as in character, OOC, etc...

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:09 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 98
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Quote:
ShawnG wrote:
Sorry for not responding, you are certainly welcome to play!



Cool, thanks!


Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:05 am
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Quote:
Veritas wrote:
Cool, thanks!



Glad to have you, Veritas!
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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:31 am
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Ungern

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 98
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Good to be on board.
This will be my first game of C&C.


Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:36 am
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 68
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I'm still finishing up my notes for this one and we should be able to start later this week. We now have five of you, which will make a good party. I still need background and character information from a couple of you, and I think we only have stats for Treebore's character, so if those few things can be tightened up, we will start.

When we started, I had ideas for Greyhawk, FR, and Yggsburgh, and to kind of tie a few of those together, I have decided to plant the Yggsburgh setting into Greyhawk, as we had discussed in a few posts earlier. As an archenemy for a campaign, Iuz is tough to beat, so you can expect eventually to confront some of his minions. Yggsburgh actually fits well into the area of greyhawk that I had originally planned on using, so if you're scoring at home, you can simply drop the yggsburgh setting directly south of the Vesve forest in the highfolk area so that highfolk has been replaced by YB. Since my last name is Gray, we can refer to this setting as "Grayhawk" if you will. If any of you are not, in this game, infidels; you can select from the various greyhawk gods as you see fit (I'm assuming these are pretty familiar to most of you, but if they are not, let me know.)


Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:43 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 68
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For posting I will have both IC and OOC threads set up in the next couple of days, and for your IC posts please indicate actions in Bold Type things your character says aloud should be in "quotations" and thoughts should be in italics All dice rolls to be posted in the OOC boards as well as any metagame questions or chat.

One of the wonderful things that play by post allows that is not as easy at the gaming table is private messaging. I will make extensive use of PM's for lots of things, and you can decide whether to share with the group at that point (or not). So please make sure that private messaging is enabled, and please make sure you check your PM's before you submit moves, or you may find that you've missed something!

Just to reiterate the point on my first thread, I'm going to try to do several rounds of combat at once, so give me battle strategies a couple of turns in advance, as well as a few attack and damage rolls.


Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:56 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 20660
Location: Arizona and St Louis
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I'll try and get everything done tomorrow. I've been busy arranging to get and pick up a new Arabian Stallion. I got him here tonight, and I have a fair amount more to take care of tomorrow. But I think I'll have an hour or so free tomorrow to decide and write up what I want to do with my PC.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:48 am
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Red Cap

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
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May the crusade continue!

Btw, is it okay if I say that my character is from the 5 Shires? It is not actually from Greyhawk, it is Mystara (the only D&D campaign I know very well, and also where I set Yygsburg in my own game).

Essentially, think of Hobbiton from the Lord of the Rings. That is what the place is like, for the most part.
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Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:20 am
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
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Quote:
BASH MAN wrote:
May the crusade continue!

Btw, is it okay if I say that my character is from the 5 Shires? It is not actually from Greyhawk, it is Mystara (the only D&D campaign I know very well, and also where I set Yygsburg in my own game).

Essentially, think of Hobbiton from the Lord of the Rings. That is what the place is like, for the most part.



I would prefer that we stick to greyhawk/yggsburgh for your character's homeland. There is no shire-like "home of the halflings" on Greyhawk as such, and the one place where there was listed a significant population, I dropped an Yggsburgh on top. (Highfolk) There are a few halfling communities noted in the YGB setting.

Now, as to whether you say you're from somewhere that doesn't exist in the minds of the peoples of the flanaess is entirely your own business, and could make for some fun, if awkward role-playing. you could have actually been from Furyondy or Veluna for instance, and somehow taken a knock on the head, and convinced yourself that you in fact are from the five shires, a halfling paradise. This could have led to your being thrown out of your homeland in shame, which lead naturally to your career as a ranger/druid...


Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:36 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
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ah another Mystara fan! Well met BashMan! Where did you place Yggs- in your Mystara campaigns? I haven't decided yet where to place it and would like to do the same. I started the "Mite's Lair" adventure before I had the Yggs. book so I used Threshold as the teams starting town otherwise it would have been Yggs.


Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:46 pm
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Cleric of Zagyg
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I usually have my Greyhawk characters (almost always demi-humans) come the Gnarley Forest, so I'll go with that again. I like the area and it's so central to the action of the surrounding areas and many of the modules.

He'll have spent time in the city of Greyhawk apprenticing to an uncle.

I'll finish up my sheet today and add some background info.
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:34 pm
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Location: Somewhere in Time
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Quote:
ShawnG wrote:
For posting I will have both IC and OOC threads set up in the next couple of days, and for your IC posts please indicate actions in Bold Type things your character says aloud should be in "quotations" and thoughts should be in italics All dice rolls to be posted in the OOC boards as well as any metagame questions or chat.



Would it be beneficial to have one more thread setup for our characters/character sheets, so they'll all be readily available for you (and us)?
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:13 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Rhuvein wrote:
Would it be beneficial to have one more thread setup for our characters/character sheets, so they'll all be readily available for you (and us)?



Yeah we can do that, I have all of your stats that I have so far transferred to some of madirishman's excellent character sheets, but I have no problem making a thread for them, sure.

my job is such that I have the next two days off, and I will be taking time in between diaper changes to get the threads set up (My daughter's diaper changes, not mine )


Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:48 pm
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Ungern

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 91
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LOL I was gonna say, just use a toilet for your computer chair like the rest of us instead of depends 8)
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thank you,

Rob
Visit Robbie's Hobbies


Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:57 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 7:00 am
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Location: Arizona and St Louis
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Here it is:

Rolin Atyar

Acolyte of St. Cuthbert

Located at Grand Temple and Monastery at the intersection of Grand Ave., Citadel Ave., and Temple St.

Rolin has been at the Temple since being a young lad and has always been attracted to the doctrine of St. Cuthbert. As he received his education and learned more and more of the clergy he decided that he wanted to be a priest as well. He wanted to be a teacher and to be able to care and heal others. Like they did for him. So he took his oath of dedication at the age of 1 4 and spent years studying the doctrine and scriptures of St. Cuthbert. He also learned the physical techniques of wrestling, wearing armor, and wielding the weapons favored by the priesthood.

Now that he has been ordained into the priesthood and is now having prayers granted to him by St. Cuthbert Rolin is ready to go out and prove himself worthy of the honor. He has been provided with the basic tools of spreading the teachings where ever he goes. He has even been on a few church missions to route out goblin and bandit problems, and is now looking to continue his service in the time honored fashion of finding an adventuring group.

So he is now keeping his eyes open for such people with whom he can find those in need of instruction, healing, and protection from the evils of the world called Greyhawk.

Lawful good Human

Age - 18

Eyes - Blue

Hair - Straw blonde

Hgt - 6'

Wgt - 175 lbs

Level 2

STR: 1 4 (+1)

DEX: 1 5 (+1)

CON: 9

INT:9 Prime

WIS 1 6 (+2) Prime

CHA :1 5 (+1) Prime

AC = (16) =10 + 4(Scale Mail armor) +1 (shield) +1 (DEX modifier)]

HD = 1D8

HPs = 1 4

Weapons/Armor:

Scale Mail

Steel Shield, Med

Hvy Crossbow - 1D10 (BtH = +2) 120ft.

HVY Flail - 1D10+1 (BtH = +2)

*BtH includes stat bonuses

Class abilities:

Turn or destroy undead 1d20+4, 1d12+1 Common Undead, 1d6 Ext. Undead, 2 unique undead

Equipment:

Silver Holy Symbol

Bedroll/blanket

Waterskin

Cloak

Rations (1 week)

Backpack

10 torches/flint & steel

Bolts (24)

Quarrel

HVY Boots

Med. Tent

Gold: 30

Silver: 4

_________________
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:32 pm
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Red Cap

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Robocoastie wrote:
ah another Mystara fan! Well met BashMan! Where did you place Yggs- in your Mystara campaigns? I haven't decided yet where to place it and would like to do the same. I started the "Mite's Lair" adventure before I had the Yggs. book so I used Threshold as the teams starting town otherwise it would have been Yggs.



I chose some town on the Darokin/Karameikos boarder and replaced it with the Free City of Yygsburg.
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Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:51 am
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Ungern

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 am
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Okay the game boards are set up, please continue this discussion in the OOC thread. The quote on the IC thread is just for a little atmosphere (and because I wanted to use the quote from the new Will Farrell Movie) We'll get started soon!


Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:57 am
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Cleric of Zagyg
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Quote:
ShawnG wrote:
Okay the game boards are set up, please continue this discussion in the OOC thread. The quote on the IC thread is just for a little atmosphere (and because I wanted to use the quote from the new Will Farrell Movie) We'll get started soon!



Very excellent, ShawnG!
I'll post my character in the cast thread.

Ready to GAme!!! 8)
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth


Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:05 am
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