C&C in the Wild West! (Finished)

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:46 am

spak_man wrote:
Actually after talking it over with the wife, Thursday nights are looking better for me. so -1 vote for friday +1 for thursday

EDIT: Although if we do play Thursdays I probably wont be able to make it tomorrow if we start that soon

Alright, let's get a mid term tally here

Spakman and Jaybird: Are you definitely in for Thursdays, starting next week

Rhuvein, Treebore, Bran, Titania, other members of the Friday group, miscellaneous layabouts and long term lurkers, are you in for next Thursday (and a few thereafter, with a break for Thanksgiving)?

If so, say so now, or forever hold your peace.

If we do not get at least 4 guaranteed warm bodies, we will shelve it.
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:59 am

Yep yep. I'm a definite for preferably Thursday, though Friday is doable too. I'm also making it a point not to read the mini adventures in the back of GFYG, just in case you want/need to use anything out of there.

Thursdays are actually REALLY good for me. Aside from Thanksgiving, I'm available every Thursday for an undetermined period of time.
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spak_man · Post by **spak_man** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:23 pm

Defiantly confirmed for Thursdays Although I can pull Fridays off if need be.

-Andre
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Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:35 pm

My schedule changes alot... what format are you using? (skype, OpenRPG I'm guessing...)

Have you seen Wizards & Winchesters...?

Has Simon been along?... I'm sure he'd be interested...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:54 pm

My whole family is in, except for my wife. So 4 players with us alone.

Maybe you'll want to look into doing this like I did Ravenloft. A Monday, Thursday and a Friday group.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:56 pm

Emryys wrote:
My schedule changes alot... what format are you using? (skype, OpenRPG I'm guessing...)

We use skype and openrpg because they are the easiest for everyone to set up and use, and I can't/won't make the changes to let my router be accessed by the scary outside world

Functionality wise, they are both acceptable but not great.

Emryys wrote:
Have you seen Wizards & Winchesters...?

I had seen that. Interesting stuff, although probably not where I would be going. I did have another idea for a Boot Hill module, that is quite different than the rather conventional "Wild West"module I am offering here. But it would also be quite different from the Wizards and Winchesters model.

Emryys wrote:
Has Simon been along?... I'm sure he'd be interested...

Too much pressure! Plus, as I said, I have ham-fistedly changed a few things, so he might not like it
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:01 pm

Treebore wrote:
My whole family is in, except for my wife. So 4 players with us alone.

Maybe you'll want to look into doing this like I did Ravenloft. A Monday, Thursday and a Friday group.

Great News!

Pick Your characters (or if you do not like the ones offered, I will make some new ones).

The character classes I did not make an example of (because they did not seem to have the same full functionality), are, as I recall a Preacher, a Muckraker, and Brave (Muckraker=journalist). (jaybird might have the doc in front of him-I do not) Each might be fun roleplay wise, but do not integrate as easily, and the Preacher/Muckraker might feel left out in the gunfights.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:11 pm

OK -so as I understand it:

We start next Thursday, 6-9 PST, and run for a few weeks with a break for Thanksgiving, and definitely trying to wrap it up in time not to run into Christmas holidays

Characters are:

Treebore- Gabriel Jackson

Spak man- Tony Martinez

jaybird- Buffalo Johnson

Treeborean rascals- ????

We will also leave a slot for Emrys or Rhuvein if they are bound and determined to "shoot a man, just to watch him die". But as it stands, 6 players will be perfect

If we do have a big group, one idea I thought of was to do all rules questions, character actions, joking, chatting etc. through skype, as normal. But all NPC and players _statements_ would be typed through open rpg. That way that stuff is getting under the chatter of skype.

I know Treebore does not like a lot of typing, but actually, the player statement part of the evening is shorter than you think. But Treebore gets a provisional exemption from this idea anyway if we do go that route

Looking forward to it everyone!

(I hope it does not go as my first experience with the fun game Twilight 2000 (post apocalyptic Europe), where we players eagerly scoured the books and outfitted ourselves with skills and equiptment for 3-4 hours. Then the game started. 4 players in our carefully selected truck, one player (me) outriding on a motorcycle. First minute, DM announces a group has spotted us. Group fires an RPG, truck goes BOOM. One scared nincompoop hastily rides away from the wreckage of the truck. Total play time? Under three minutes. )
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:13 pm

Not sure if I should post my house rules document here, so we can hash it out, or send it to all as PMs with the character sheets.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Send it with character sheets, plus the character write ups so my rascals can choose theirs.
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Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:00 am

Aramis wrote:
Not sure if I should post my house rules document here...

You could post them at the GFYG Yahoo group...
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:55 pm

Aramis wrote:
(I hope it does not go as my first experience with the fun game Twilight 2000 (post apocalyptic Europe), where we players eagerly scoured the books and outfitted ourselves with skills and equiptment for 3-4 hours. Then the game started. 4 players in our carefully selected truck, one player (me) outriding on a motorcycle. First minute, DM announces a group has spotted us. Group fires an RPG, truck goes BOOM. One scared nincompoop hastily rides away from the wreckage of the truck. Total play time? Under three minutes. )

I had the same thing happen in Merc. One lucky shot to the head and my buddy's spec ops soldier was fish food before he even made it to the beach on a solo mission. If you're ever interested in running/playing T:2000, let me know. That was by-far my favorite RPG. We played it long after we had abandoned AD&D, then abandoned it years before I started up again with C&C. There's a 3rd Edition due out soon. Twiligt:2013.

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to our wild west she-nannigans! Riding through the scrub, cactus and general landscape of west Texas has really whetted my appetite.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:52 am

jaybird216 wrote:
I had the same thing happen in Merc. One lucky shot to the head and my buddy's spec ops soldier was fish food before he even made it to the beach on a solo mission. If you're ever interested in running/playing T:2000, let me know. That was by-far my favorite RPG. We played it long after we had abandoned AD&D, then abandoned it years before I started up again with C&C. There's a 3rd Edition due out soon. Twiligt:2013.

Well actually, the only time I played it was in the above scenario I do like to have short breaks of different style games, but I always return to good old sword and sorcery as my bread and butter. Maybe someday we could have you run a T2000 game, or someone give us some Cthulhu goodness, or a short Paranoia break. The options are endless.

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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:11 am

OK-

I have (hopefully) sent the house rules and appropriate character sheets to jaybird and Treebore and his kids. So the only one left is spak-man. Could you PM me your email address, spak man?

Thanks

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Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:54 pm

I'd be interested in seeing the house rules
Could I send a PM...?
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:07 am

Emryys wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing the house rules
Could I send a PM...?

By all means. And please post your thoughts on it.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:29 am

Some discussion questions regarding the (rough draft only) house rules:

1) Change on Dexterity. Needless complexity or a good solution?

2) Use of luck to avoid death. Cheesy or necessity?

3) Disabilities. Interesting twist on "death"?

4) Here's a biggy: the Damage Chart. Clever innovation or "too mathy" (note- the damage chart is adapted from the original Boot Hill Rules. Not my own idea)

5) Should gunslingers get the +2/+2 1/day advantage on this chart I have listed? More? Less? Make a siege check for it?

6) If we use the Damage Chart, should we use the Optional Additional damage rule? This would make combat more realistic/deadly/exciting, but it somewhat negates abstract HPs, and would make high level characters susceptible to a quick, ignominious end

7) I was thinking of making a Damage Chart for Brawling (again, based very loosely on the one in Boot Hill). It is more complicated than the above chart ( to make it fit under C&C rules). Good idea or save your time?

8) Combat Modifiers- these are important because, without armour, players have to use the environment and tactics to get an "AC" advantage. But it does get a bit 3e with all those dangling modifiers floating around. Too 3e? Also- I wonder if all these modifiers might make combats take forever as no one can hit anyone else We will monitor that

9) Initiative is so important should it be rolled for each round? Would this bog down the game? If we rolled it each round, the gunslinger advantage would have to be reduced on subsequent rounds' initiative rolls

10) More initiative- my withhold manouevre (called opportunity action in GFYG). Does it make the initiative winner too powerful?

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:32 am

forgot to put this in the house rules doc, it will be added for the next edition:

Re Damage Table:

no called shots.

I find that kind of thing is fun to do, but much less fun to have it done to you, so best to not allow anyone to do it.

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They say that to do injustice is, by nature, good; to suffer injustice, evil; but that the evil is greater than the good. And so when men have both done and suffered injustice and have had experience of both, not being able to avoid the one and obtain the other, they think that they had better agree among themselves to have neither; hence there arise laws and mutual covenants

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:52 pm

Aramis wrote:
forgot to put this in the house rules doc, it will be added for the next edition:

Re Damage Table:

no called shots.

I find that kind of thing is fun to do, but much less fun to have it done to you, so best to not allow anyone to do it.

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They say that to do injustice is, by nature, good; to suffer injustice, evil; but that the evil is greater than the good. And so when men have both done and suffered injustice and have had experience of both, not being able to avoid the one and obtain the other, they think that they had better agree among themselves to have neither; hence there arise laws and mutual covenants

-Glaucon, Plato's Republic

I totally agree.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:02 pm

Treebore wrote:
I totally agree.

Glaucon has another convert.
Are you guys ok with the 5 characters I sent you, or do you want a couple more?
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:55 am

I have added a paragraph to the newest version of the house rules (the one I sent to Emryys) to clarify the interaction between the hit location table and body parts that are behind cover

"What this can mean: if you only poked your head above the wall (getting the benefit of cover and a +6 to your DC), in the rare event that you are hit, they can only hit you in one place! Cover is a double-edged sword, to a certain extent. It makes getting hit much less likely, but once you are hit, it wont be in your ankle"

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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:10 am

Character Update

Treebore- Gabriel Jackson

Spak man- Tony Martinez

jaybird- Buffalo Johnson

Rhiannon- Annie YellowHawk (scout)

Bran- "Duke" Merriweather (scout)

#2 son- ?

I find it interesting that no one has yet chosen a gunslinger. Haven't any of you ever seen a Western before?
Actually, I think what worries me is how smart your choices are. Much of the module will be out of doors and so on, and those gunslinger tender feet might have trouble. God knows how Tony "5 Aces" Martinez will handle it

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Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:50 am

I see the Dexterity problem... (Super Stat). Not sure if this is the way... must think about it. GFYG and C&C usually have simple solutions... maybe DEX as a super stat isn't all that unrealistic... perhaps make INT affect Initiative and DC instead. The clever Gunfighter new what his enemy was going to do...
Most of the rules you propose seem to be of a desire to add realism, while not a bad idea (in fact some are quite clever and recognizable as I have most western RPG's), but since this is an online game, keep streamlined in mind whenever you make changes. I think they can work (damage is kinda cinematic), so give them a try
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:20 am

Emryys wrote:
I see the Dexterity problem... (Super Stat). Not sure if this is the way... must think about it. GFYG and C&C usually have simple solutions... maybe DEX as a super stat isn't all that unrealistic...

Oh, it's very realistic. The problem is, any player of any class would be crazy not to put his "18" into Dexterity. It is so useful in everything. The result is everyone is a super ninja!

Emryys wrote:
perhaps make INT affect Initiative and DC instead. The clever Gunfighter new what his enemy was going to do...

That's a nice idea. Makes Intelligence more valuable. Have to check my GFYG if that would make some INT class too powerful .

"Not only smart as a whip, he could slap that smile off your face before ye knew what hit ye, ah reckon"

Emryys wrote:
Most of the rules you propose seem to be of a desire to add realism, while not a bad idea (in fact some are quite clever and recognizable as I have most western RPG's), but since this is an online game, keep streamlined in mind whenever you make changes. I think they can work (damage is kinda cinematic), so give them a try

That is my thought as well. Making new rules is all well and good, but don't lose the genius of C&C: simple quick resolution of success/failure. Adding a whole bunch of fiddly makes the game more responsive, but may slow it down. We shall see what works, but also what the players like/don't like.

As for taking things from other western RPGs, I did read through the old Boot Hill rules but as for the others, I don't know if I have read any. I bought Sidewinder? (not sure, maybe another one) but I have not even looked at it. Some of the ideas (like the death as disability malarkey, or even some of the damage rules ) are ripped straight from my own C&C house rules stuff (which I have never inflicted on players...yet).

Interesting to see, for example that GFYG divided up attributes (P,S,T) into three categories. I did something similar, in relation to class skills only, in my C&C house rules a while back

Thanks for the comments
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:38 pm

I'm finally back in civilization. The rules and character look great!
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jaybird216 · Post by **jaybird216** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:02 pm

Jumping slightly off-topic:

Tree just posted the link to RPGNow's Thanksgiving giveaway week in Open Discussion.

One of tomorrow's offerings is Twilight:2000 1e. If people want to snatch that up, I'd be happy to run a game of it sometime. You can't beat free. I have 2 hard copies of the rules, but I'll probably get the PDF too, just for posterity.

BACK ON TOPIC (sort of)

One of Thursday's offerings is a wild west Gunslinger game. Coincidence?
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:38 pm

Not only that the (not great) movie Wild, Wild West is on this Thursday as well. No Good, the Bad and the Ugly? Come on!

As I posted in the Monday Thread, my house is presently without power. Fairly common during the stormy winter months here *sigh*. I live betwixt mountains and ocean and they do not mix well during the fall.

In this case, half the province seems to be out, although I am sitting in the nicely lit and heated Community Centre writing this a few blocks from my house. I may just bed down here tonight
I can't imagine that the outage will last until Thursday, but this might happen again during our game. If it does, I will probably have no way to give a heads up. So I do so now.

If I am unable to DM a session, Treebore has nicely offered to DM a game of "Burrows and Bunnies" while I am away. Gameplay should be similar.

Kidding!
(I think I have the Twilight 2000 pdf from a previous give away, but if not I will definitely give it a look. )
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:30 pm

Here is a potential problem in the house rules. Under the Initiative heading, it allows that

"Character can choose to hip shoot. This gives a +2 to initiative, but a -2 to hit"

This makes a certain amount of sense if initiative is rolled every round(as I think I was planning when I wrote it) . Unclear how that will work if we just roll for initiative once per combat.

I.e- either it means you get a permanent -2 "to hit" throughout that combat in exchange for a +2 initiative benefit (seems harsh). Or, you get a 1st round only "to hit" penalty, in exchange for a permanent +2 initiative benefit throughout that combat (seems too generous, everyone would do it)

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:17 pm

Simple its useable only in the first round of combat. Once the guns are "drawn" it doesn't apply anymore.
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:55 pm

Treebore wrote:
Simple its useable only in the first round of combat. Once the guns are "drawn" it doesn't apply anymore.

Right, but if initiative is rolled only at the outset of combat, it would be a bit tricky. Once we set that Blondie (rolled 10) goes before Angel Eyes (9 [rolled a 7 + 2 hip shot bonus]), who goes before Tuco (8) , it is set for the remaining rounds.

Or do you mean we retroactively revoke Angel Eyes advantage after the first round, and revert him? Might be a bit tricky to remember all that.

I don't have a nice shiny initiative board like you
I always like rules where the player can choose multiple combat options but each one has benefits and penalties. However, they do have a tendency to make the combats too fiddly (a.k.a. 3e disease, which is a baleful affliction! )

P.S. -thanks for pointing out that rpgnow sale. Some good stuff.

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