Any interest in a Saturday one-shot?

nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:32 pm

IF the group wants crit table we can use them, but I want to hear from the rest. Seems that they can really throw an encounter off if the consequences are to far out of whack. If the group wants them I will use the crit tables from Crusader.

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:40 pm

Sure no problem Nate. Others have used them playing in our games. Just makes it more interesting is all. Instead of rolling a crit and doing double damage, you roll on table and hack a guys arm off. Not likely, but it can happen in a mortal combat to the death
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Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sat May 24, 2008 6:17 pm

nwelte1 wrote:
IF the group wants crit table we can use them, but I want to hear from the rest. Seems that they can really throw an encounter off if the consequences are to far out of whack. If the group wants them I will use the crit tables from Crusader.

I know the other players love their crits. And they are quite cinematic. I am fine with it for a one off game

For longer term games, I do not like the conventional crit/fumble system at all. Let me bore you with some of my reasons:

1) Having them occur on a flat 5% chance (1 in 20) makes no sense. A 20th level fighter should get crits on a 1st level opponent much more often than vice versa. Look at "knock outs" in boxing as an example. The skilled fighters get many more.

2) These charts usually have a devastating consequence more often than you think. The chart above has what I would call "devastating" consequences about 17% of the time (say 15%) for "slashing". If crits occur as a flat 5% chance, then a devastating crit will occur 3/400 (.0075). So say 1% of the time. 1% of the time, an attack will "ruin" a character (dead, lose limb, eye etc.). If players have 4 fights per game session, with each fight lasting 6 rounds, and they face 1 attack per round (so say 25), each PC, on average will be "ruined" in 4 sessions

Actually, now that I think about it, a 1/100 event will occur on average around the 50th roll, not the 100th. So these devastating crits would occur twice as often

But that is compensated by the facts that the other charts did not look as bad as slashing, and 4 combats per session might be a bit high.

The point is, eventually, them crits is gonna git ya! And sooner than you think.

3) I do like the realism of them. Combat should be terrifying. But I think it might be better to have only temporary consequences (can't run, or must swing left handed -4, etc.), or revamp clerical healing so arm reattachemnts and the like are more readily available to lower level characters

4) As I have said before, crits sound cool, but the permanent negative consequences of suffering them for PCs far outweigh the temporary fun factor of lopping an opponent's head off.

As Glaucon tells us in Plato's Republic:

They say that to do injustice is, by nature, good; to suffer injustice, evil; but that the evil is greater than the good. And so when men have both done and suffered injustice and have had experience of both, not being able to avoid the one and obtain the other, they think that they had better agree among themselves to have neither; hence there arise laws and mutual covenants

-Glaucon, Plato's Republic, Bk II

Didn't think you would learn a little philosophy today, did you? Oh, I can bore with the best of them

Anyway, crits sound good for today, but I would be wary of instituting them in a long term game
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 6:53 pm

"Crits" always go against the PC's. Why? Because they get attacked a lot more often than they are able to attack. Take my Monday Night game, for an example. 33 creatures attacking every round. That meant I could have had a "devastating crit" about every other round. Where as the group of PC's might have dealt a "devastating crit" once every 7 or so rounds. More like once per 10 rounds since not all are fighters.

Thats why I do the crits I do. Melee weapon crits get you a free extra attack, missile weapons are double damage. PC's can handle such crits much better in a long term campaign.
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LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:28 pm

Treebore wrote:
"Crits" always go against the PC's. Why? Because they get attacked a lot more often than they are able to attack. Take my Monday Night game, for an example. 33 creatures attacking every round. .

They do when you have a party of 5-6 vs 33 critters. Think of it the other way. A party of 5-6 vs one big bad critter. The party are more likely to score cirts than the critter.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:39 pm

LordSeurek wrote:
They do when you have a party of 5-6 vs 33 critters. Think of it the other way. A party of 5-6 vs one big bad critter. The party are more likely to score cirts than the critter.

Yep, but in a long term campaign how often do you think you will see 4 to 6 PC's on one bad guy versus 4 to 6 PC's versus 20, 30, 50+ bad guys?

So a long term campaign greatly changes the odds of losing limbs and such to be heavily against the PC's which can be worsened by DM's who limit access to spells like regeneration and raise dead, etc...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:41 pm

Notice I have been talking only in terms of campaigns. Short term games are fine for "deadly crit tables". Personally I would pull out my Best of Dragon Volume 3 and use those charts to tear up PC's with.
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:47 pm

I will use the Crusader # 7 Tables.

My wife is playing a 1/2 orc fighter... Looks Like I have an orc tribe on my hands.

Tree and Slimy what are the odds you guys are playing?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:49 pm

Right now I would say 80% or better. I will likely play a Ranger. Human.
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 8:16 pm

For those that don't have Maptool yet, grab Dev version 1.3.b30. I will put up a server 1 hour before game time to allow those with slow download speeds to get the map loaded.

Module is a low level starter mod but it does have a few potentially nasty encounters. Where I felt appropriate I swapped the creatures in the module for corresponding creatures in the M&T. In some cases this increased the difficulty of the encounter and in others it decreased it.

I suggest having a 3.5 PHB handy as there is a chance you may find items or encounter effects that are not in the C&C PHB. No this is not one sided. Players will have access to some of the same items or effects.

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Sat May 24, 2008 8:18 pm

Sorry guys, I won't be able to make it.

nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 8:21 pm

Tree I got room for one of your kids if they want in as Slimy can not make it.

I am thinking about using Tree's modified EXP rules posted in the rules thread to keep EXP simple and allow leveling to occur on the fly.

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Sat May 24, 2008 8:34 pm

nwelte1 wrote:
Tree I got room for one of your kids if they want in as Slimy can not make it.

I am thinking about using Tree's modified EXP rules posted in the rules thread to keep EXP simple and allow leveling to occur on the fly.

Where are these rules posted?
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 9:58 pm

LordSeurek wrote:
Where are these rules posted?

In this thread.
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 10:21 pm

LordSeurek wrote:
Where are these rules posted?

Not sure if I will yet. Depends. Otherwise it may just be ad hoc through and through.

LordSeurek · Post by **LordSeurek** » Sat May 24, 2008 10:30 pm

Looks good Tree.
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sat May 24, 2008 10:55 pm

Sever is up.

Name; Nate's game

Player passwword: player (all lowercase)

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:09 pm

Everyone meet Trout the dwarven cleric:

[quote]Code:

edited to factor in racial modifiers to attributes

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:14 pm

nwelte1 wrote:
Sever is up.

Name; Nate's game

Player passwword: player (all lowercase)

I'm having troubles locating the server. This is my first time using MapTool, so maybe the problem is me. I selected the "RPTools.net" tab and typed "Nate's game" as the name of the server. Above, I put "Buttmonkey" under "Username" and "player" under "password."

Am I doing something wrong?

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:26 pm

Buttmonkey wrote:
I'm having troubles locating the server. This is my first time using MapTool, so maybe the problem is me. I selected the "RPTools.net" tab and typed "Nate's game" as the name of the server. Above, I put "Buttmonkey" under "Username" and "player" under "password."

Am I doing something wrong?

There should be a list of servers you can scroll through. His name should be one. click and "OK" it

How are we talking? Skype or vent? Anyway, we can talk you through it if you get on our voice system, whichever that is?
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:29 pm

Aramis wrote:
How are we talking? Skype or vent? Anyway, we can talk you through it if you get on our voice system, whichever that is?

I am dgorjones on SKYPE.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:32 pm

Where do I find the list of servers? When I selected "Connect to server" under "File" I got a dialog box asking me to specify a server over a LAN, RPTools.net, or Direct. I've clicked on all three of those tabs and none of them gave me a list of servers to choose from.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:41 pm

Hello?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:42 pm

Have you deactivated your Firewall?
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:43 pm

Treebore wrote:
Have you deactivated your Firewall?

I haven't done anything to my Firewall software. What needs to be done?

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:43 pm

i use rptools.net

we can talk through it on skype
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"Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try"

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:44 pm

I am in, Mishaun the Ranger, at your service.

Since I see nothing about Ventrilo's server ID I will look for everyone on SKYPE.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:26 am

Lots of fun Nate! I hope you do it again and I get to make it!
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nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:26 am

Thanks for the fun hack and slash everyone. Sorry my critters only really challenged you once. I will have to let Serlan know his dragon hatchling sucked up a storm. 3 hits.... blah. Though they were three mighty hits.

Hope you guys enjoyed the quick run through. Sorry the session took more than 3 hours, but how often do you get to whack a dragon?

nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:29 am

Thinking the next maps I will be making (besides the A series) will be Sunless Citadel and Exp. to Castle Ravenloft. Figure if I start expedition now, I can finish it by October for Tree to run it again.... nudge nudge wink wink.