Troll Lord Games

Treebore wrote:
That PDF idea is a good one James. You crunch numbers, how long would the print have to be on the shelves before a pirated copy wouldn't hurt the sales? 30 days? 60? Then make the PDF available when Pirating effects would be at or near zero.

I like PDFS so I can print out the maps easier. Especially if they are really cool and I want to have them laminated, maybe a grid added, blown up to miniature sizes, etc...

Would "Map Packs" at least be a possibility?

There are a number of ideas right now as to compilations. That's for the future, though; I've got to get a couple of issues out there first!
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serleran wrote:
Sounds interesting, but I don't know about an initial $120 drop. Is there a guarantee that the money will be refunded (prorated of course) if the thing collapses (for those of us who don't have a positive bone in our cranium?)

This is a very good question. I know $120 is a LOT to drop at once, especially on a a game magazine; we all know the history of those in this industry.

So I've come up with a special deal. I'm going to call it the "Serleran Special" if that's okay...
This will work for folks who want to subscribe and get the sub bennies, but aren't able to afford to drop even a 3-month subscription. It will be available for the first year only, and must begin with the first issue.

With the "Serleran Special," you pay 10 monthly payments of $14 (US or Canada, $17 monthly UK). During this time, as long as your payments are up to date, you get the magazine, the campaign installment, AND all the regular subscription bennies. Then, having paid for the first five issues, you get the sixth issue more or less FREE. The total comes to $140 ($170 UK) (vs. $162 and $198 for buying each issue individually and not getting the subscriber bennies), which is not as good a deal as the 3 or 6 issue subs, but the payment is over 10 months. Also, you don't need to worry about whether the magazine "disappears" or not...

This offer will NOT continue after the first year; thereafter, regular subscription requirements apply.

The first payment in the Serleran Special is due this month; each month thereafter the payment will be due by the 7th of the month.

Will that work?
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James Mishler

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http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

jamesmishler wrote:
So I've come up with a special deal. I'm going to call it the "Serleran Special" if that's okay...
This will work for folks who want to subscribe and get the sub bennies, but aren't able to afford to drop even a 3-month subscription. It will be available for the first year only, and must begin with the first issue.

With the "Serleran Special," you pay 10 monthly payments of $14 (US or Canada, $17 monthly UK). During this time, as long as your payments are up to date, you get the magazine, the campaign installment, AND all the regular subscription bennies. Then, having paid for the first five issues, you get the sixth issue more or less FREE. The total comes to $140 ($170 UK) (vs. $162 and $198 for buying each issue individually and not getting the subscriber bennies), which is not as good a deal as the 3 or 6 issue subs, but the payment is over 10 months. Also, you don't need to worry about whether the magazine "disappears" or not...

This offer will NOT continue after the first year; thereafter, regular subscription requirements apply.

The first payment in the Serleran Special is due this month; each month thereafter the payment will be due by the 7th of the month.

Will that work?

I'm in!
You'll be receiving an email soon.

You may, of course, call it the Serleran Special... or just First Year Special. Hehe. Whichever makes sense for you. (And yes, I am posting this after the fact on purpose, so it looks like it was my idea anyway, cause I'm a bastard.)

So what's the deal with all of the other products AGP had listed as coming? Are these products to be repleaced by the Adventure Games Journal? -OR- is the journal going to supplement the upcoming products for the Wilderlands?

..................................................Omote

FPQ
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just some random musings...

- sounds like a really neat idea, C&C is almost reaching the point now where the products being released is exceeding my gaming budget... not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but worth commenting on

- so, all this work going in to the mag, how much will this take away from other products already announced?

- will this content be entirely original content, or will we see some things in other products?

- 120/ year = on 10/month, which to me doesn't seen that excessive for a full product every month (I'm averaging the 2 products every other month).. This seems reasonable, though in gaming circles, 120 bills is steep

- why do it this way and not pump content into the crusader, perhaps going (if at all possible) into a sort of partnership with the tolls so you can make some scratch beyond just what you may make for article submission.

- what makes you think this can work? was XXXI more successful than you thought at Gencon making you believe there is a larger demand for C&C material than what is currently being offered?

- After feeling slightly burned with the Crusader, my 1 year subscription reaching into the 3rd, how can you, a single person, with other products to release as well meet these aggressive timelines?

- The if things go belly up for the magazine question already got answered. I suppose I've made larger mistakes than 120, so eve if after 2 or 3 issues things just don't work out, I guess it's not *that* huge of a deal...

- feeling slightly burned thread part deux (note the Canadian spelling there - that's an important hint) - after 6 released issues of the Crusader so far, and me only having so far received 5, and of those 5, only 1 ever made it to me without having to have it resent, and resent, and once resent for a 3rd time... why can you do things different, and can you please tell the Trolls you secret?

- I like pretty pictures, will there be pretty pictures?

ok, that's about it for random thoughts and stream of conscience for now...

driving home from work today, I decided that I'll give this one a try, if I recall correctly, it will only be about $40 more than the subscription of the crusader, so it seems worth it to me.

Cheers,

J

And what about postage and shipping to Australia? Just curious.
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Omote wrote:
So what's the deal with all of the other products AGP had listed as coming? Are these products to be repleaced by the Adventure Games Journal? -OR- is the journal going to supplement the upcoming products for the Wilderlands?

..................................................Omote

FPQ

At this point, it will be the Journal, plus a 32 or 48-page product on the off month. For the forseeable future, the Campaign Installments are going to be Player's Guide to the various regions of the Wilderlands, and the offset product will be a Judge's Gazetteer. These will take the place of the originally planned products. I still need to get the website updated... unfortunately, my html skills are not so 733t...
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http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

Hmm, sounds utterly fantastic. No doubt that is a robust release schedule.

............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

jman5000 wrote:
just some random musings...

Lots and lots of questions!

Quote:
- so, all this work going in to the mag, how much will this take away from other products already announced?

The mag and the offset product (see above post) will take the place of the previously announced product line.

Quote:
- will this content be entirely original content, or will we see some things in other products?

Virtually all the content is original; that said, some of the Player's Guides and Judge's Gazetteers might share information where races and cultures overlap; I'm not going to force people to get the Viridistan books just to get the Virid race for the Roglaras books. Also, a few things are "updated" from original bits or articles in classic JG products. The first issue will, for example, have an updated guide to the Fraternity for the Eradication of Armored Riffraff (FEAR) from the CSIO, complete with NPCs, motives, and adventure hooks.

Quote:
- 120/ year = on 10/month, which to me doesn't seen that excessive for a full product every month (I'm averaging the 2 products every other month).. This seems reasonable, though in gaming circles, 120 bills is steep

Yup, which is why I'm offering the "Serleran Special" (i.e., the "First Year Special Subscription") on a month-to-month payment plan. Much more affordable, and it eliminates worries about me pulling a disappearing act with all yer hard earned gold!

Quote:
- why do it this way and not pump content into the crusader, perhaps going (if at all possible) into a sort of partnership with the tolls so you can make some scratch beyond just what you may make for article submission.

The Trolls and I have rather different business styles, and the Crusader is a very different kind of magazine.

Quote:
- what makes you think this can work? was XXXI more successful than you thought at Gencon making you believe there is a larger demand for C&C material than what is currently being offered?

If you look on ENWorld and Dragonsfoot and the Goodman boards and here and a half-dozen other places, you'll see where I've mentioned before that publishing is dead, especially magazine publishing, and you'd have to be crazy to get into it. Maybe I've finally gone nuts. Or maybe I'm crazy like a fox, and figure I've got the plan that will make this work...

I think I do. All I need is enough subscribers who want the kind of product they can only get from *me*, and I believe I can make this work.

Quote:
- After feeling slightly burned with the Crusader, my 1 year subscription reaching into the 3rd, how can you, a single person, with other products to release as well meet these aggressive timelines?

Because this is my ONLY job. Well, that and keeping my sweetie happy. My ONLY job will be producing Adventure Games Journal, the Campaign Installment, and the off-month product. I will be putting in a minimum 8-hour day at my desk, writing and working on this stuff, as though I were in an office. As my much put-upon sweetie can attest, I'll probably be spending even more time than that...

Quote:
- The if things go belly up for the magazine question already got answered. I suppose I've made larger mistakes than 120, so eve if after 2 or 3 issues things just don't work out, I guess it's not *that* huge of a deal...

If you are worried, go with the First Year Special. Then it won't be a mistake at all, as the most you will be out is one issue... and I hope that never happens.

Quote:
- feeling slightly burned thread part deux (note the Canadian spelling there - that's an important hint) - after 6 released issues of the Crusader so far, and me only having so far received 5, and of those 5, only 1 ever made it to me without having to have it resent, and resent, and once resent for a 3rd time... why can you do things different, and can you please tell the Trolls you secret?

Because I'm not a Troll, I'm a Dragon. Er, wait, wrong magazine...

Um... If I tell the Trolls my secret, it won't be a secret anymore, will it?

Quote:
- I like pretty pictures, will there be pretty pictures?

Yes, but black and white, not color... and that includes the cover for the first few issues, at least. If I can get an advertiser for the back cover who WANTS color and is willing to PAY for color, then the covers will be color, too. But the guts are all black and white, and no weird post-modern splashing stuff. Every illo will be germane to the article. Most illos will be done by Peter Bradley; I'll be getting some other artists too, as Peter is always busy with Troll work. But Peter's work is quite pretty...

Quote:
driving home from work today, I decided that I'll give this one a try, if I recall correctly, it will only be about $40 more than the subscription of the crusader, so it seems worth it to me.

Thanks! Glad to hear the vote of confidence! However, if you are still nervous, you can go with a 3-issue sub or even the month-to-month special.

Thanks again!

James
_________________
James Mishler

Main Man, Adventure Games Publishing
jamesagp1@gmail.com
http://adventuregamespublishing.blogspot.com/
http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

Storm Queen wrote:
And what about postage and shipping to Australia? Just curious.

Same as UK, looks like, unless there are some odd customs duties of which I am not aware...
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James Mishler

Main Man, Adventure Games Publishing
jamesagp1@gmail.com
http://adventuregamespublishing.blogspot.com/
http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

I'm not interested in purchasing the 3.5 edition of the Wilderlands boxed set from Necromancer or digging up the original JG stuff.

Do people need that boxed set to fully understand what's happening with your game line? Are they comfortably separate? Will you refer to an organisation in the CSIO for example, but not explain the context to readers and assume everyone has either the boxed set or a working knowledge of the Wilderlands?
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Storm Queen wrote:
I'm not interested in purchasing the 3.5 edition of the Wilderlands boxed set from Necromancer or digging up the original JG stuff.

Do people need that boxed set to fully understand what's happening with your game line? Are they comfortably separate? Will you refer to an organisation in the CSIO for example, but not explain the context to readers and assume everyone has either the boxed set or a working knowledge of the Wilderlands?

I asked that same question a while ago, and essentially the answer is yes.

looking at the map in xxxi, there is a part that says (hex 4: 1712), which I'm assuming are map coordinates..

Cheers,

J.

jman5000 wrote:
looking at the map in xxxi, there is a part that says (hex 4: 1712), which I'm assuming are map coordinates.

That is correct. However, in case it's not fully understood, the amount of v3.5 cruch/mechanics in the Wilderlands box set is very, very low. Dare I say negligible.

............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Storm Queen wrote:
I'm not interested in purchasing the 3.5 edition of the Wilderlands boxed set from Necromancer or digging up the original JG stuff.

Do people need that boxed set to fully understand what's happening with your game line? Are they comfortably separate? Will you refer to an organisation in the CSIO for example, but not explain the context to readers and assume everyone has either the boxed set or a working knowledge of the Wilderlands?

Need? No. However, I think when you get more and more of James work on the WL your going to end up wanting to buy the 3.5 boxed set. Which will be a good thing, it rocks! Plus the 3E crunch is very low in the boxed set. Even then the crunch will at least tell you NPC names, levels, etc...
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I'm keen for James to succeed in this, but isn't he shooting himself in the foot by only catering to the small subset of C&C players who /also/ have the 3.5 boxed set or JG modules? Isn't he trying to sell his stuff, rather than back-copies of the 3.5 boxed set?

If the map references are important, perhaps James could supply a Wilderlands introductory pdf set on his site, with a copy of the map to put his products into context. It feels a bit unfilling to pick up a magazine and to find that it requires another investment, written in a different system that one has no interest in, in order for the magazine to make any sense. It sounds way too specialised.

If the magazine focuses heavily on the map references and refers to products that have been done under 3.5, or if the reader requires a working knowledge of the Wilderlands to understand the magazine, then that's cutting off potential interest. Otherwise the magazine will only seem like half a product, even if references to the map references are light. I'd rather that the AGP stuff is entirely self-contained. Perhaps the first issue could include the map or serve as an 'introduction to the Wilderlands.'

Another concern I have is that the extra modules, the GM guides, are separate from the magazine subscriptions. Is it possible to incorporate them into the subscription system? If I pay for the (expensive) subscription, I've got to do an extra, special order to get the GM guides. Couldn't this content be incorporated into the magazine?
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Unfortunately, the realities of RPG publishing make it very unlikely that James, or any other publisher, will be able to release anything close to the 3.5 boxed set (which, given a much more popular game, sold less than 2000 copies). At best, such a thing will come later, and I assume in a much more modest format. Probably without the hex maps, too.

As I see it, if someone is interested in the setting, the box will remain the best bet in the foreseeable future, with old copies of JG's publications a second, although more expensive alternative.

Please forgive if I'm playing the devil's advocate here...

Storm Queen wrote:
I'm keen for James to succeed in this, but isn't he shooting himself in the foot by only catering to the small subset of C&C players who /also/ have the 3.5 boxed set or JG modules? Isn't he trying to sell his stuff, rather than back-copies of the 3.5 boxed set?

I see the point you're making -- I don't have the box set either. I did manage to get a copy of the Player's Guide to the Wilderlands which came out before the boxset which I think gives me a decent run down of the setting. However, I'm sure that are also some people that plans on dropping elements from the magazines straight into their own campaign setting of choice. At this point, I do want the box set, but it's lower on my list of priorities at the moment.

Storm Queen wrote:
If the map references are important, perhaps James could supply a Wilderlands introductory pdf set on his site, with a copy of the map to put his products into context. It feels a bit unfilling to pick up a magazine and to find that it requires another investment, written in a different system that one has no interest in, in order for the magazine to make any sense. It sounds way too specialised.

If the magazine focuses heavily on the map references and refers to products that have been done under 3.5, or if the reader requires a working knowledge of the Wilderlands to understand the magazine, then that's cutting off potential interest. Otherwise the magazine will only seem like half a product, even if references to the map references are light. I'd rather that the AGP stuff is entirely self-contained. Perhaps the first issue could include the map or serve as an 'introduction to the Wilderlands.'

What I'd like to see is a Gazatteer of sorts... something with a map and overview maybe a bit like the aforementioned Player's Guide that NG put out or like TLG's 'After Winter Dark' Folio. I would rather see this as separate from the journal subscription if only to be more accessible. That way someone can buy a copy of the gazetteer and pick up a subscription at *any* point without worrying about tracking down earlier issues. With regards to the 3.5 box set, I think that it's safe to say that between 90 and 95 percent of the material is informational and would have no game mechanics attached. The problem is the price tag is a bit much to swallow.

Storm Queen wrote:
Another concern I have is that the extra modules, the GM guides, are separate from the magazine subscriptions. Is it possible to incorporate them into the subscription system? If I pay for the (expensive) subscription, I've got to do an extra, special order to get the GM guides. Couldn't this content be incorporated into the magazine?

Wouldn't that bring the said subscription cost higher? Some of the gamers out there wouldn't be interested in the modules are even the GM guides. I also don't expect these modules or GM guides to come out anywhere near as regular as the Journal would.

In my case, I've only really started into some of the material related to the Wilderlands when AGP was formed last year. The stuff I've seen thus far (like the Tell Qa accessory given out on Free RPG Day) was crammed with info. I figure I could use it no matter what setting I played in. Then again, I don't know how much I'll be investing into this either but I've pretty much decided to give the subscription a try.

You do bring up some very good points Storm Queen with the most important being how accessible or inaccessible is the campaign setting to gamers right now. If the boxset is the best way to go... what happens when they sell out?

Moriarty the Red
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Actually, isn't the forthcoming, initial "Souther Reaches" installment a form of gazetteer? It is pretty possible that it can be used as such. If there is a way to bring the Wilderlands into print in another form, this is it.

All the maps, at least the old versions, and I think the new ones too, are available for individual PDF sale at DrivethruRPG under NEcromancer Games.

I believe the new maps are only available as a bundle.

Still, with the maps James is going to be making available, I still expect teh material to be somewhat generic enough to use in any setting you wish to use the material in.

Just like old JG, if you liked the materila you incorporated it into your setting, or hunted down the JG's official setting. Which wasn't easy to do back in the 80's, when I first got into JG.

The only reason I have as much JG as I do now is because of eBay.
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james,

email sent to the right adress.