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Prime and Secondary
https://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12665
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Author:  nightstorm [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Prime and Secondary

I read where prime gives you a +5 and that the base is 15.
1. Why is this different from the 15 +3/-3 in the CKG?
2. Where is the part about secondary? Is it a -5?

Author:  Arduin [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
I read where prime gives you a +5 and that the base is 15.


Where did you read that?

Author:  nightstorm [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

page 143 first paragraph

Author:  Arduin [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
page 143 first paragraph



Which book?

Author:  nightstorm [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

Son of a B****! I could of sworn I put Amazing Adventures in the subject line. Sorry about that.

Author:  Arduin [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
Son of a B****! I could of sworn I put Amazing Adventures in the subject line. Sorry about that.



Oops. I don't have that one. :(

Author:  Jason Vey [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
I read where prime gives you a +5 and that the base is 15.
1. Why is this different from the 15 +3/-3 in the CKG?
2. Where is the part about secondary? Is it a -5?


Hi, Nightstorm!

Try not to overthink this--it's not that different from C&C.

1. Amazing Adventures is not Castles & Crusades and was written before the CKG was complete. I changed from the 12/18 split in Castles & Crusades to make it more intuitive and to allow for easily comparable contested rolls. That being said, if you would rather use the C&C 12/18 split, it won't make any difference at all. This is discussed in the GM section of Amazing Adventures. However, there's also a discussion of how attributes work in the attribute section at the beginning of the text, which gives the basics.

2. Secondary attributes are simply attributes that aren't Primes. There's no special bonus or penalty for secondary attributes.

So it breaks down like this:

You get 3 Prime Attributes.

Challenge Base (CB) = 15

Challenge Level (CL) = difficulty of the task at hand (sliding number at GM's judgement)

Challenge Class (CC) = CB (15) + CL

Prime Attributes grant a +5 "Prime Bonus" to applicable checks.

Hope this helps. If it makes it easier to think about it in C&C terms, you can consider the CB as 10 for Primes and 15 for Secondary (non primes), but I find the 15 base with a +5 bonus to be more intuitive and as I said, it allows for contested rolls. Yes, this also makes characters more likely to succeed at a given task in AA than in C&C, but AA is supposed to be pumped-up high adventure pulp play, so it works out.

Author:  nightstorm [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

I like the base 15 myself. The more I see of Amazing Adventure I can see it's rules showing up in the next C&C edition. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but do you always add your character level or do you not when it's secondary?

Author:  Jason Vey [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
I like the base 15 myself. The more I see of Amazing Adventure I can see it's rules showing up in the next C&C edition. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but do you always add your character level or do you not when it's secondary?


The only time you don't add character level is when you are attempting something that is a class ability of another class. That is, an Arcanist with a Myth and Legend Knowledge who is trying to suss out details of the legends surrounding an archaeological site would not add his level, because that's a class ability of the Raider class. The Arcanist would, however, add the bonus from his Knowledge skill. A Raider, on the other hand, who has a Myth and Legend Knowledge would add both is class level AND his Knowledge skill, making him a renowned expert in his field due to the specialized training.

Hope that makes sense.

Author:  nightstorm [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

The Grey Elf wrote:
nightstorm wrote:
I like the base 15 myself. The more I see of Amazing Adventure I can see it's rules showing up in the next C&C edition. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but do you always add your character level or do you not when it's secondary?


The only time you don't add character level is when you are attempting something that is a class ability of another class. That is, an Arcanist with a Myth and Legend Knowledge who is trying to suss out details of the legends surrounding an archaeological site would not add his level, because that's a class ability of the Raider class. The Arcanist would, however, add the bonus from his Knowledge skill. A Raider, on the other hand, who has a Myth and Legend Knowledge would add both is class level AND his Knowledge skill, making him a renowned expert in his field due to the specialized training.

Hope that makes sense.


Another question. Why the skills, and "feats" One of the best things about C&C was not having them.

Author:  Ronin77 [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
The Grey Elf wrote:
nightstorm wrote:
I like the base 15 myself. The more I see of Amazing Adventure I can see it's rules showing up in the next C&C edition. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but do you always add your character level or do you not when it's secondary?


The only time you don't add character level is when you are attempting something that is a class ability of another class. That is, an Arcanist with a Myth and Legend Knowledge who is trying to suss out details of the legends surrounding an archaeological site would not add his level, because that's a class ability of the Raider class. The Arcanist would, however, add the bonus from his Knowledge skill. A Raider, on the other hand, who has a Myth and Legend Knowledge would add both is class level AND his Knowledge skill, making him a renowned expert in his field due to the specialized training.

Hope that makes sense.


Another question. Why the skills, and "feats" One of the best things about C&C was not having them.


C&C always had skills, They are just linked to a class rather than bought with points. So that is not new. And if by "feats" you mean traits, Its not the same, for one there is no huge bloat of feats at higher levels. Just triats to flesh out your characters.

Author:  Jason Vey [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
Another question. Why the skills, and "feats" One of the best things about C&C was not having them.


Then don't use them. They are in the optional rules chapter. The game will work just fine without using backgrounds, knowledges, and Traits. These just represent another (explicitly optional) level of character customization. Same with Generic Class Abilities. Same with Sanity. That entire chapter is optional.

The only thing in there that probably SHOULDN'T be optional (and I'll likely fix this on second printing if I can) is the Wealth system.

Now, all that being said, these aren't d20-style skills and feats where you have to allot a million points amongst an overly complex system of individual skills, and track 8 million combat maneuvers and bonuses.

Traits are better thought of as a merit/flaw or quality/drawback system, but each trait has both a benefit AND a drawback. You only ever get 2 or 3 total, and you'll never see more than a +1 or +2 bonus from any one, to very specific situations. They're mostly just personality quirks and descriptors.

Backgrounds and Knowledges aren't skills--they can be thought of more as additional Class abilities--they give you extremely broad areas of knowledge and experience that you can apply to many different situations. They're as freeform and open as the rest of the SIEGE engine is.

But I knew some people wouldn't like the idea, which is why they are all 100% optional.

Author:  nightstorm [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

Oh I understand.
As I'm reading the pdf, it seems that a book with an example of the three or so types of settings in the book should be published. I think it will help in getting people to wanting to play it.
I think it's a hard decision in which way to go. Do you go historical, but all the fantastic stuff is hidden from the masses,
or do you do where the masses know of strange things, OR do you put it in a futuristic, non earth setting?
I think a book that has the different settings laid out , with maps and background info would really help it along.

Author:  Jason Vey [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

I have a number of sourcebooks planned to expand and further focus different styles of play. I just need to get the Trolls on board with them. Working on it.

Author:  nightstorm [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

I think so far a Gadgetter is my favorite. I made this while thinking of the class.


Image

Author:  dachda [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Prime and Secondary

nightstorm wrote:
I think so far a Gadgetter is my favorite. I made this while thinking of the class.


Image



Nice! Thanks for sharing.

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