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[Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital) 
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
That sounds reasonable to me, any other opinions? As people reading the rules for the (relatively) first time, would that be more intuitive AFAYC?

Mike

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Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:54 am
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Mogrl

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
DMMike wrote:
That sounds reasonable to me, any other opinions? As people reading the rules for the (relatively) first time, would that be more intuitive AFAYC?

Mike


Just give a good explanation as to how it works, because right now that is lacking.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:19 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Combine the two. Move it into the Powers list and give it a good explanation. ;)

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Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:16 pm
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Mogrl

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Traveller wrote:
Combine the two. Move it into the Powers list and give it a good explanation. ;)


Well, yeah, I was figuring you guys realized moving it into the powers list would help with clarifying it. :lol:

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:52 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
True, though I don't think combining them is a good idea. Invention and Magick, while having some similarities, have some major differences too.

Thing is, I'm not sure how to insert a example for Invention/Magick. If I did, they would be the only 2 powers with examples. That'd look odd, and I'm NOT writing an example for every single power! LOL!

Mike

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Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:02 am
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Hey Mike . . is this power a ranged attack (DEX)?

What does the STR mean with regard to how the power works?

"Psycho-Kinesis: The Hero with Psycho-Kinesis can
project a mental kinetic force at a distance to strike
foes or manipulate objects. Psycho-Kinesis starts with
strength 10 at rank 1, and a +5 bonus to strength per
additional rank."

Thanks. :)

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Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:04 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
PK's use of STR is the strength of the Psycho-Kinesis, not the character's own Strength. So, if attribute mods are required, then the PK's STR rating's attribute bonus (if any) is used to modify damage...just like melee combat and a character's own STR score.

STR in the power regards lifting items and/or damage. Getting hit with a STR 10 PK is equal to being punched by someone with a 10 STR. Same if the PK's "bought up" to a rank of STR 20 or more. This also applies when STR is needed for a check/save using the PK.

Its basically using STR at range. Of course, depending on uses that STR of the PK could be much stronger than the character's inherent STR attribute. In which case all checks using the power uses the PK's STR total.

Hope that's clearer?

Mike

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Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:28 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Yes, clearer and I was hoping that the STR did indeed refer to the PK and had nothing to do with PC STR.

Now, I assume the wielder of this power must make a successful attack roll, correct?

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Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:55 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Yes, that is correct. Adjusted for circumstances of course.

Here's another point that gets missed a lot, though I don't know if you guys have had this come up:

Turning on a power is an action. Say, putting up a Force Screen is an action, using an active power is an action. So, there's no "I turn on my Force Screen and then blast the foe!"

Well, unless you have Lightning Speed and 2 actions in a given round. ;)

Just FYI,

Mike

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Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:28 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Thanks for the reply and a follow-up question.

What's the damage the PK attack if successful?

And, incidentally while I was looking for the answer in the book, there were some references to a "taking damage" section - which I could not find with the search/find tool.

Thanks again!

:)

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Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:06 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Hello!

Damage is as if a hand to hand attack, basically STR damage. The STR of the PK, not that of the attacking character's intrinsic strength.

Re: Taking Damage... I'll check with Traveller to see whats up there. I think the damage section is just not headered.


Mike

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Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:46 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Thanks.

Last night we went with your suggestion of 1d4 for damage and to me, that is perfect.

:)

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Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:29 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
"Taking Damage" should simply be "Damage". It's part of the Combat Actions section.

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Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:56 pm
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Mogrl

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Pretty sure I came across something that said what hand/fist damage is, and it was either 1d2 or 1d4. Plus, since this is a SIEGE engine, if it isn't in Victorious, we should be able to refer to the original SIEGE engine in C&C.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:47 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Hey Mike!

A couple of things . . the party faced a werewolf in last night's game. In your description of the creature under special, you mention healing 2.

That didn't jump out for me and I didn't realize until this morning when I looked at the M&T which uses the term regeneration.

Not a big deal and now that I remember the ability it doesn't matter if you change the term, but I thought I would throw it out there for your review.

Now, more importantly - the M&T covers saving throws vs. lycanthropy ~ but I didn't see that in Victorious and forgot about it during game play. Several party members were bitten by the werewolf. Since it happened at the end of the game, I'll give them their saving throws at the beginning of next session.

Thanks for listening.

Rhu. 8-)

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Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:58 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
EDIT: I misunderstood what Rhu was talking about regarding the were-wolf. That said, the were-wolf entry lists Healing 2, as it should. A description of Healing is provided in the section "Characteristics of Animals & Monsters" at the beginning of the chapter, at least in my copy of the manuscript.

Mike can chime in on this if necessary, but if I recall correctly, renaming regeneration to healing was deliberate. Curse of Lycanthropy is missing from the were-wolf entry, but I don't know if that was deliberate or not.

EDIT 2: I believe the omission of Curse of Lycanthropy to be deliberate. The folklore and legends about transforming into a werewolf usually mention requiring an object, such as a wolf skin belt, a salve, or an action such as drinking water from a wolf footprint to transform. The concept of transforming in the light of the full moon seems to have its genesis in Russian folklore, where if someone slept outside in the summer on a certain Wednesday or Friday under the light of a full moon, they would transform.

Needless to say, since an object or action is required to transform in the first place, transferring the curse via a bite must be a modern invention, along with diluting the Russian folk tales of werewolves to allow transformations during the light of any full moon. The curse itself is derived from the Greek myth of Lycaon, who was transformed by Zeus into a wolf as punishment for feeding one of his sons to the gods for dinner.

The long and short of it is that there is no curse of lycanthropy, at least not in the folklore.

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:45 am
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Pretty much as Traveller stated it. Much of the Supernatural Powers of Victorious start with a wide range and are limited then by the player in CharGen to meet a particular theme.

"Healing" is different from Regeneration in that it defaults as useable on others. If you make it self only that is a 1 rank reduction in cost. BTW, don't forget every power MUST cost a minimum of 1 rank; there's no freebies.

As Trav noted, "how" werewolf curses are transferred is as varied as vampirism. The "Were-Wolf" novel that the description is taken from did not note bite as a mode of transference. If you want to do that, its cool but its not part of the inherent creature...at least as far as the 19th century was concerned.

Mike

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:04 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
DMMike wrote:
The "Were-Wolf" novel that the description is taken from did not note bite as a mode of transference. If you want to do that, its cool but its not part of the inherent creature...at least as far as the 19th century was concerned.

Mike


Thanks for the replies.

Mike, your description of a werewolf in Victorious is the same as the M&T and specifically mentions bite as its attack.

But, to my point mention above - Victorious does not mention that those who are bitten by a werewolf need to make a saving throw or they will become a werewolf if not cured by a cure disease spell before 28 days pass.

So I think a short paragraph about this should be put in the book.

:)

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:47 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Mike, Curse of Lycanthropy appears in the were-wolf specials when it shouldn't. That's where Rhu's confusion comes from, and it's easy to miss since it's a cut-and-paste error. It needs to be removed from the creature's specials, which will restore what you intended for the creature.

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:00 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Ok, let's hope that Peter's still taking rulebook typos. ;)

Mike

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:19 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Traveller wrote:
Rhu's confusion


:?

;)

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Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:49 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Hey Mike and Trav . .

there are several occurrences of ~ (see page @@@) or (page @@@) in the PDF. I assume someone was going to put the numbers in there but overlooked it.

:)

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Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:27 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Yes, I tend to put "@@@" in a manuscript as a quick bookmark since there's no possible use for three @ symbols in any text. I'll notify Peter of these to either plug in the page number or get rid of the entire reference.

Thanks for the notice!
Mike

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Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:46 pm
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
U velcome! :P

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:12 am
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Have him check for "see page XX" as well, in case I added page references.

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:29 am
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
Traveller wrote:
Have him check for "see page XX" as well, in case I added page references.


Good call!

They or those are present as well in the PDF!

:)

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:37 am
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
We tried to use the chase system tonight, and it was very odd. Sort of comedic the weird efforts we made to make it work.

We are in two ordinary coaches. Ours (Coach A) has 2 horses. It is made of wood, as is theirs (Coach B) which has 1 horse.

On Coach B, the bad guys are inside the coach. Their hired driver (Dex prime, +2) is on top of the carriage driving the horse.
On Coach A, the situation is similar, the heroes have guns and are leaning out to shoot the other carriage while their similarly skilled driver drives.

We make our Chase rolls, which are straightforward.
Then we do our shooting. We are instantly flummoxed. What is the AC of the vehicle? What are the hit points?

We decide if we were outside, on a sunny day, and we saw a parked coach, it would be AC 10. We decided in a chase the AC would still be 10.
If we wanted to hit the passengers while we were moving, our penalties (evening, point blank, foggy), it would be -9 total to hit anyone inside.
So we decided it was -7 due to the chart to hit the vehicle itself. So a normal ranged attack at a -7.

We thought maybe we'd need to use the HDP rules to determine damage to the vehicle. The HDP rules most involve CUSTOM vehicles.
A CUSTOM vehicle is basically a character. It has attributes and ranks. You damage a custom vehicle by doing enough damage to make it lose ranks. As it loses ranks it saves to see if other things happen. When it is at -4 ranks, it is destroyed. Apparently walls and doors behave the same way.

So the chart tells us the wooden carriage is medium, made of wood, it has 5 HDP.

Now we needed to determine ranks. This is not a custom carriage, it's ordinary. A custom carriage would be a special thing made for a particular extraordinary magical or technological purpose, and would have at least 1 rank. We decided this one, probably purchased at Ye Olde Discount Carriage Shoppe, would be 0 ranks. (The "at least one rank" was my thinking when I saw it would automatically have Invulnerability to Temporal Damage. It's stated though that a custom vehicle starts with 3. We just couldn't imagine what those would be on this carriage.)

Since it has zero ranks, we decided it had no primes, since primes are powers that cost slots. This is important, because the vehicle must save when it takes enough damage to lose a rank.

So, we decided it would take 5 damage (5 HDP) before it would have to make its first save. Our Webleys, even at a penalty, did this fairly quickly, blowing a fist sized hole in the vehicle. It had to save vs. HDP or become inactive.

Save vs. HDP, we decided, is a regular SIEGE-like check, so 1d20+0(attr)+0(level) vs. 18+5. (this makes no sense, that means a battleship has an impossible save and a little red wagon is near invulnerable).
Re-reading the rules now, I know it's in fact a CON save, and the HDP is NOT the CL, it's the CON score. A CON score of 5 is a -2.
Therefore 1d20-2 vs. 18; we need an 18 to not become inactive.

Of course, the enemy carriage does not makes its roll, breaks an axle, and drags itself to a stop.

We step out of the carriage and resolve combat as usual.

So, I guess a few things tripped us up.

1. Chase vs. "combat between individuals that are aboard a speeding coach, usually for control of the coach". We didn't get too hung up on that, but it was a little confusing because it seemed like the options were really limited to those. As a fan of Save or Die, I decided no such limits were intended.
2. Damage to vehicles (and objects) seem to continue from p. 54 "Custom Vehicles". It was difficult to determine what we were supposed to do with an ordinary vehicle or object. Further, it wasn't clear what the armor class of a vehicle was.
3. When we exceeded the HDP necessary to take a vehicle down a rank, we weren't sure if the damage carried over (we didn't carry it over). So if we needed to do 5 pts, and rolled a 6, we just jumped to the saving throw. If the throw had been successful, we would have started over at 5 and repeated until it was destroyed.
4. We thought the Invulnerability to Temporal Damage was probably a special custom vehicle thing, after all, this was not a super-vehicle. In hindsight, the recommended minimum 1 rank with Invulnerability to Temporal Damage always makes sense, because it's basically representing absorbing some damage, as hard objects do. It would make more sense to title the Custom Vehicle section in such a way to address object/vehicle/construct damage all at once.
5. If we had made it a Rank 1 vehicle, and damaged it by its HDP, it would become a rank 0 vehicle, and when we got it down to -2 ranks (disabled), it would actually have one less rank (the invulnerability in this case). This is sort of confusing; we took it down to Rank -2, but it really only has 1 fewer rank. I think this actually makes sense in light of the instruction to give it three ranks, presumably one of which must be the Invulnerability. The confusion comes from the fact it's an ordinary vehicle, so what do we use the extra power slots for? Again, I think this would be clearer if the word CUSTOM didn't exist and some examples of different types of vehicles and objects were given in full.
6. If the carriage had invulnerability of course, we'd have taken longer to disable it, which makes sense; until we got it down to enough to lose the invulnerability, we'd take -3 from our damage rolls.

I think we found a way through it that sort of made sense, but I'd be glad of advice.

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
We did some playtesting tonight of the coach chase rules and how PC action goes after the coach rolls and we have some questions.

Sir Aergraith is compiling some of them and will post soon.

:P

[Edit . . oh hello ~ there is some nice timing above . . ;) ]

Thanks for posting, Aergraith!

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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
WOW!

Well done, Aergraith!!!

That's an astounding post . . cause you wrote down everything that we discussed and presented it well.

Very much looking forward to Mike/Travs comments and thoughts!

Twas a great playtest for sure and thanks to Penny and Aergraith!

8-)

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Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:07 am
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Post Re: [Q&A] Victorious rulebook (Digital)
My thoughts.

1. I don't have any comment on that one. Mike would have to chime in.
2. Armor class of a vehicle isn't spelled out, so we would need to add in armor classes based upon the material the vehicle is made of.
3. Mike needs to chime in, but I would have done what you did and jump right to the saving throw.
4. All vehicles should have Invulnerability 1 (+3 Temporal).
5. The way I read it, all vehicles start at rank 0, and need to be whacked down to Rank -4 to be destroyed. See below for a rework of the rules to take standard vehicles into account, which should help somewhat.
6. See 4.

Replace the first two paragraphs in the vehicle construction section with what is below, and see if this helps.

"Genteel Magistrates wishing to flesh out standard vehicles, or players wishing for a unique vehicle for their Hero can use the below rules to create this craft for their use. All unique vehicle creations must be approved by the Genteel Magistrate prior to play, and repair or replacing such a vehicle takes far longer than the rules for replacing standard vehicles. All vehicles in the game have the following powers and shortcomings.

Powers: Invulnerability 1 (+3 Temporal)
Shortcomings: Weakness (Cannot heal damage)

If the vehicle is custom built, in addition to the above items it will have the following additional shortcomings: Notorious (Unique vehicle, easily noticed), Weakness (Vehicle must be at least 20 square feet in size)

A standard vehicle has 0 ranks for powers and skills. The vehicle's weakness would normally provide 1 rank, but the rank was already spent on the vehicle's Invulnerability. Custom vehicles have 3 ranks for powers and skills, of which one was already spent on the vehicle's Invulnerability. A Vehicle’s powers and skills are all assumed to be built as needed by the player using invention, Magick, or Wealth ranks. When Wealth is used, it is assumed that the wealthy Hero has hired scientists or magicians to create the device for him or her. This is more cost effective rather than using a Hero’s own Invention or Magick slots, but it makes secrecy or maintenance much harder. Additional Shortcomings can be purchased by the player for their vehicle, but all must be approved by the GM before play."

The sections on figuring the vehicle's HDP and vehicle ranks are unchanged, except for the need to add armor class information based upon the material used in construction.

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