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Victorious! Castles & Crusades 
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Unkbartig

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Post Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Below is the rough draft of an article that I somehow forgot to put into the Victorious rulebook. Feel free to look it over and make any suggestions you think are appropriate. Who knows, it might show up in a later printing? ;)

Converting Adventurers to other Siege Engine Games

In the realms of fantasy and Victorian fiction alike, there are many tales of individuals being taken out of their proper place and time to be whisked away to worlds undreamt of. Provided below are rules to allow the use of Victorious characters within the Castles & Crusades Fantasy Role-playing game or visa versa. It is not difficult to imagine how heroes and heroines of the 19th century might find themselves the victims of Supernatural phenomena or Steampunk science and thrown into the realms of fantasy, full of dark dungeons and dragons with fire and fang to defeat. Conversely, it doesn’t take much thought to consider how sturdy fighters, sneaky rogues, enigmatic wizards or virtuous clerics might find themselves the victims of a magical curse or maleficent spell; translocating them to the cobblestone streets of London or the concrete spires of New York City!

The following will provide suggestions to the Genteel Magistrate (GM) or Castle Keeper (CK) who might desire to create an adventure where the player characters find themselves truly out of their element and into a strange and fantastic world. As both are Siege Engine games, conversion between them is not so difficult as one might imagine.

Castles & Crusades

The following aspects of a character translate to the other game without any modifications needed:

* Attributes (Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity, Charisma)
* Armor Classes
* Hit Points
* Skill levels used to determine Attribute Checks, Saving Throws and such like.

Changes:

* Alignments: Good, Neutral and Evil are interchangeable from C&C to Victorious. However, C&C’s use of “Lawful/Neutral/Chaos is not. If moving a Victorious character to C&C then the player and GM will have to decide if said character is Lawful or Neutral or Chaotic. Generally speaking, most villains will be Chaotic. Heroes and Heroines will tend to be either Neutral or Chaotic, with only those SuperMankind who directly work for the government being “Lawful”.

* Skills:
Skills will work normally, but allow each skill rank in Victorious to count as an additional +1 level to the skill checks in Castles & Crusades. That is, each additional rank means the check will work as if the hero was one level higher than the normal in making that check or save.

When using C&C characters in Victorius, use their skill level only as their skill rank. Don’t forget that racial bonuses will impact skill use as well. Check the C&C Players Handbook for details in this regard.

* In Castles & Crusades, treat Supernatural Powers as Monster Powers or Abilities as noted in the Monsters & Treasures Tome. If the C&C magic system is being used, then any visiting SuperMankind with ‘Magick’ will instead have their incantations treated as Spell like Effects (rather than the ‘fire & forget’ system of C&C) also as defined in the C&C Monsters & Treasures Tome.


Discuss. ;)

Mike

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:43 pm
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Looks pretty comprehensive and well done to me. Fundamentally I like the notion that Victorious is compatible with C&C (and by extension Amazing Adventures) so I would expect the actual amount of conversion to be minimal.

Since I don't have the full rules yet I can only guess at how skills are put together in Victorious but adding in the skill level as additional C&C character levels seems high. I assume you've had a chance to try this in actual play? And it looks like converting from C&C to V works differently than V to C&C (shouldn't one subtract a number?) which seems counter-intuitive. Again, my perception may be skewed.

Also, you remind the reader that racial bonuses also apply. Are characters in V humans only?

Anyway, I archived a copy of this article for later use. 8-)

DMMike wrote:
When using C&C characters in Victorius, use their skill level only as their skill rank. Don’t forget that racial bonuses will impact skill use as well. Check the C&C Players Handbook for details in this regard.
Geez. You'd think that the author could spell the name of his own game right. :lol:

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Marv / Finarvyn
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Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:30 am
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
I DID say it was a rough draft... ;) Though I'm sure Traveller would think the above was downright polished compared to the MS's I've sent his way. LOL

Regarding your q's, Skills are bought with starting ranks. Each character gets 3 ranks + (initially rolled) Charisma bonus if any. The starting 3 reflects the 3 Primes a C&C character starts with. Primes are skills and bought as desired.* A character starts with initial skills equal to their (initial) INT attribute bonus with the caveat that they always have at least 1 (even with a INT less than 9).

You buy skill ranks using the above as well as powers. Unless you're running a non-SuperMankind game in which case characters are limited to only buying skills and attaining Shortcomings (to get more ranks). Oh and Victory Points too though good aligned characters can earn them along with play.

Regarding what you said about the counter-intuitive-ness, could you explain that a bit more? I'm not getting it. Its nearly 1am, so that might be part of it. ;)

Mike <yawn>

* == This is part of the balancing system between high power and low power folks. For example, a figure like Sherlock Holmes has no actual powers, but can buy all six attributes as Primes. This gives him an edge on checks and saves, giving him superiority over the folks who bought Blast, Force Screen, and Super-Movement Flight but could only afford 1 attribute as a Prime.
M.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:53 am
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
DMMike wrote:
Regarding what you said about the counter-intuitive-ness, could you explain that a bit more? I'm not getting it. Its nearly 1am, so that might be part of it. ;)
Well it's more likely that I don't get it, but I'll explain what's in my head...

DMMike wrote:
* Skills:
Skills will work normally, but allow each skill rank in Victorious to count as an additional +1 level to the skill checks in Castles & Crusades. That is, each additional rank means the check will work as if the hero was one level higher than the normal in making that check or save.

When using C&C characters in Victorious, use their skill level only as their skill rank. Don’t forget that racial bonuses will impact skill use as well. Check the C&C Players Handbook for details in this regard.
I read this to say:
Converting C&C -> V: Add +1 per level to check.
Converting V -> C&C: Play as is; subtract nothing.

That's where it seems counter-intuitive to me. If I'm working with a mathematical equation, say V = C + L, then the reverse requires me to undo the mathematical process in the equation like C = V - L. Except that when you convert one way you aren't subtracting anything.

Wait ... as I'm reading it again ... "use their skill level only" implies that we're taking the total number (SL + L) and using SL only, which is actually subtracting the level without saying anything about subtracting. I think while typing I may have puzzled through my error. :oops:

Going to scurry back to the Quickstart to put things in context, but I think we're on the same page now.

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:39 am
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
DMMike wrote:
This is part of the balancing system between high power and low power folks. For example, a figure like Sherlock Holmes has no actual powers, but can buy all six attributes as Primes. This gives him an edge on checks and saves, giving him superiority over the folks who bought Blast, Force Screen, and Super-Movement Flight but could only afford 1 attribute as a Prime.
This is brilliant, by the way. One of the big problems encountered in many RPGs is to juggle how to handle high power and low power characters (or NPCs) at one time and this seems like a great "fix" for the issue.

I had been considering Amazing Adventures for my Dresden Files campaign, but Victorious sounds like a better fit. (I've been struggling with how to mix mundanes with werewolves and vampires and wizards.)

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Marv / Finarvyn
Lord Marshall, Earl of Stone Creek, C&C Society
Just discovered Amazing Adventures and loving it!
MA1E WardenMaster - Killing Characters since 1976, MA4E Playtester in 2006.
C&C Playtester in 2003, OD&D player since 1975


Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:44 am
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Red Cap

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
finarvyn,

I recommend you consider both products because each one has its own strength and you can combine them to make a more complete conversion.


JLL


Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:25 pm
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Red Cap

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
DMMike,

I will have to check the monster manual before I comment more.

JLL


Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:26 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Anal edit: It should be "vice versa", not "visa versa".

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:41 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Wow, I can't even post without getting edited! LOL!

Thanks for the kind words about Victorious, I'd love to see a Dresden Files version of V out there. Post what you come up with?

Mike

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Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
DMMike wrote:
Wow, I can't even post without getting edited! LOL!

Well, you did say, "Feel free to look it over and make any suggestions you think are appropriate." ;)

Are the SoDcasters going to do one of your non-D&D episodes featuring Victorious when it is finally released?

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Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:55 pm
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Probably, though I'm holding for the next Save for Half episode to be over C&C. We'll see if I get outvoted. ;)

Mike

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http://www.victoriousrpg.com


Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:31 pm
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
lobocastle wrote:
finarvyn, I recommend you consider both products because each one has its own strength and you can combine them to make a more complete conversion.
Well, I already own pretty much every product for Amazing Adventures out there (I was in on that KS) and can't wait to buy into Victorious as soon as I can (missed that KS) so my DRESDEN FILES end result will probably be a blend of both. 8-)

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Marv / Finarvyn
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MA1E WardenMaster - Killing Characters since 1976, MA4E Playtester in 2006.
C&C Playtester in 2003, OD&D player since 1975


Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
DMMike wrote:
I DID say it was a rough draft... ;) Though I'm sure Traveller would think the above was downright polished compared to the MS's I've sent his way. LOL

Manifest Destiny gave me fits, but I think only because my copy of Word glitched when saving the original manuscript in ,docx. The persons of note section got mangled and I had to copy from the .rtf into Word.

As to the rules you posted, if it hasn't already gone to press why not slip that information into the Phantasmagoria?

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:15 am
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Unkbartig

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Post Re: Victorious! Castles & Crusades
Alas, Steve told me that Phantasmagoria and H&H Catalog are already printed. :( I can probably slip it into a revision though, as the Phantasmagoria book has only a couple of art pieces...for 38 characters no less. :(

Mike, back from a week in the wilds of Mississippi

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Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:40 am
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