I noticed something that I thought was odd. In general the casting level of Dragon's who have gain magic spells is not specific. Does say the spell-like abilities are used at age category, and Gold Dragons specifically say they cast their spells at age category.
However, for a Gold Dragon that is 8th yet is can cast 8th level spells. That seems pretty silly. Since most of them only get 1 or 2 and sometimes 3rd level spells the age category in general works fine but for Gold Dragons it seems sad.
Anyone got a fresh take on this, am I reading it right?
-Mike
Dragon Magic Casting Level
- mgtremaine
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Personally I treat them as a spell caster at half their HD. A full fledged caster. Works well enough. That is in general. As I have always done since I started gaming is I make a monster or NPC whatever I need it to be, to be the threat level I want it to be.
Still, in general, half their HD as their caster level works well.
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Still, in general, half their HD as their caster level works well.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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I don't treat the dragon as a wizardly/priestly spell caster at all. Since the spell(s) are given abilities to cast, I treat them as innate to the dragon itself...cast at the HD of the dragon in terms of effect.
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Go0gleplex wrote:
I don't treat the dragon as a wizardly/priestly spell caster at all. Since the spell(s) are given abilities to cast, I treat them as innate to the dragon itself...
I run this pretty much by the book. I see dragon magic as different than normal arcane magic that wizards can learn. Dragons, due to their nature gain spells and cast spells differently than the standard races. I also think it's quite nice to simply add levels of a character class to a dragon if necessary.
~O
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Re: Dragon Magic Casting Level
mgtremaine wrote:
However, for a Gold Dragon that is 8th yet is can cast 8th level spells. That seems pretty silly. Since most of them only get 1 or 2 and sometimes 3rd level spells the age category in general works fine but for Gold Dragons it seems sad.
From M&T (2009 Copyright), "Dragon Magic: If a gold dragon successfully gains this ability, (See Dragon-Languages and Magic) then with every age category it gains an additional spell level, starting at 1st level for a hatchling, and culminating at 8th level for the ancient." though the text does indicate "In addition, gold dragons with this ability have the full abilities of a wizard equal to age category, but spells learned in this manner require a spellbook, as usual".
The text is contradictory as a wizard must be 15th level wizard to cast 8th level spells whereas M&T would assign a caster level of 12 to a gold dragon capable of casting 8thl level spells. Given an ancient gold dragon, age 12, is 36 HD it would seem fitting to use 1/2 HD as caster level.
Using 1/2 HD as the caster level for other dragon types that are not as high level a caster, indicative that they are not as capable of a caster as the gold dragon, may not be suitable. The age-level based equivalent caster level may be more fitting for other dragon types. But, it does seem to me that the caster level should be at least as high as a caster as necessary to cast spells the dragons can cast (or equivalently cast as an innate power) provided it does not exceed their HD.
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Well I get what they are saying BTB, Dragons aren't Wizards, they are more exceptionally gifted dabblers, so their power rating has little to do with the true professionals. Which is fine but not they way I want to deal with.
Now 1/2HD = Level is close to "about right" with a simple mechanic. Not sure it's worth chasing further then that. A 36hd Gold casts as 18th, a 34HD Red casts as 17th BUT it only has 1st and 2nd levels spells so although it casts those with a high degree of power it's general magic might is limited. Gold's win the magic contest everyday with access to 1st-8th level spells. Nothing else comes close.
-Mike
Now 1/2HD = Level is close to "about right" with a simple mechanic. Not sure it's worth chasing further then that. A 36hd Gold casts as 18th, a 34HD Red casts as 17th BUT it only has 1st and 2nd levels spells so although it casts those with a high degree of power it's general magic might is limited. Gold's win the magic contest everyday with access to 1st-8th level spells. Nothing else comes close.
-Mike
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mgtremaine wrote:
Well I get what they are saying BTB, Dragons aren't Wizards, they are more exceptionally gifted dabblers, so their power rating has little to do with the true professionals. Which is fine but not they way I want to deal with.
While I would also tend to agree that most Dragons are not Wizards, per se, M&T does clearly make gold dragons an exception when compared to other Dragon types in this respect.
M&T states "In addition, gold dragons with this ability have the full abilities of a wizard equal to age category, but spells learned in this manner require a spellbook, as usual"; both "full abilities of a wizard" and "require a spellbook, as usual" unmistakably makes them a wizard, in ability if not in classification.
You can of course do something different than what is specified in M&T...
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The text need not be contradictory: the ancient gold dragon can cast one first, one second, one third - and so on all the way up to an eighth level spell, as an innate ability, just for being a dragon. In addition, it can also function exactly like an 8th level wizard with a spell book and material components and so on.