What I did to the illisionist spell list

[zarathustra]

Not really revolutionary, this is just the tweaks I made in the houserules for my campaign. I also added a few spells to the illusionist list (Smoke Rope, Illusiory Attack, Spectral Attack, Shadow Step, Shadow Ride) but I have posted those before and I believe they are added to the C&C SRD or rules compilation that some dedicated C&Cer has put together, so I won't repost them.

The main goal was to keep people unsure if what they were facing was an illusionist or some other kind of creature/ally/attack. Used carefully and creatively these tweaks should keep the true identity of an illusionist somewhat more obscure, which after all, is their best and most powerful defense.

OPTIONAL ALTERATIONS TO ILLUSIONIST LIST
The Illusionist is the only spell list I feel may need a boost in C&C. Here are a few "fixes" proposed.

● Removed Spells; All healing spells. Also removed: Level 1- Minor Dark Chaos. Level 2- Dragon Bite.

● Added Spells From PHB List; As level 1 spell- Find Familiar. As level 2 spell- Identify.



ALTERED ILLUSION SPELLS
Regardless of other changes agreed on, these spells need a fix if illusions are to remain deceptive.

● Level 1- Dragon Armour; For setting reasons, this spell does not create the illusion of plate armour, it creates
the illusion of other armour of the casters choice. All other effects remain unchanged.

●Dragon Image; Any kind of attack, mundane or spectacular can be simulated by this spell. Other effects
remain unchanged.


● Level 3- Dragon Mount; The illusory mount created by this spell many be of any type. The material
component is a small piece of hide, fur or scale from the type of creature created (a giant version of a normal
creature will be created). Other effects remain unchanged.

● Illusory Wolves; This spell creates the illusion of any medium sized or smaller creatures of the casters choice.
Other effects remain unchanged (note, if bats are chosen they fly at the same movement rate, if eels are
chosen they swim etc.) Same for level 6: Illusory Lions


● Level 4- Dragon Scales ; This spell creates a visible, magical mantle/aura (of any description- sparkles, illusory
flames etc.). Other effects remain unchanged.



●Level 5- Dragon Breath; The illusionist creates the effect of any spectacular attack type desired, with the
same range and damage (eg. Dragon breath or calls down a column of lightning). Other effects remain
unchanged.

● Dragon Shadow; The caster becomes wreathed and partially obscured by coiling, shifting shadows and is
accompanied by a shadowy creature/effect of the casters choice (shadow hawks, a dagger etc) which
strikes at anyone attacking the caster. Other effects remain unchanged.

[finarvyn]

I'll confess that I've not found much use for Illusionists before this, but I like your ideas. Illusions always came off as kind of cheezy in game, mostly because it was kind of obvious that they were illusions. I'll have to give your rules a go.

[Go0gleplex]

Dragon Mount is one I have as much problem with as I do the healing spells...and has been dust binned for very similar reasons in my game.

[gideon_thorne]

I'm fiddling with a system that simply strips away all the 'spells' of the illusionist. Instead, the spells are replaced by abilities like Illusion. Wherein the player can just invent whatever effect they want. Level and details all affect the believability of the illusion. Another ability might be Charm. Which covers all the hypnotic abilities of the class.

Pretty much the class powers then resolve around a charisma and/or an intelligence check.

[zarathustra]

I'll confess that I've not found much use for Illusionists before this, but I like your ideas. Illusions always came off as kind of cheezy in game, mostly because it was kind of obvious that they were illusions. I'll have to give your rules a go.

It will work much, much better if you also have this idea, methinks. From my primer for players IMC:

The Colour of Magic
Players are encouraged to be creative in the way
their spells look and are launched.

So your
Open/Close spell can be done by a scuttling spider
or your elf's Magic Missile can appear to be glowing
arrows shot from a magic bow and so on (to choose
a naff example).

This can give each caster/casting lineage their own
style and may ensure you don't instantly recognise
every spell, putting a bit of mystery back into magic.

Basic spell effects/areas etc. are not altered by this.


Now with this in effect in game, the changes to the illusionist list really start to make sense.

[zarathustra]

I'm fiddling with a system that simply strips away all the 'spells' of the illusionist. Instead, the spells are replaced by abilities like Illusion. Wherein the player can just invent whatever effect they want. Level and details all affect the believability of the illusion. Another ability might be Charm. Which covers all the hypnotic abilities of the class.

Pretty much the class powers then resolve around a charisma and/or an intelligence check.

A radical departure... interesting

[Peter]

I'm fiddling with a system that simply strips away all the 'spells' of the illusionist. Instead, the spells are replaced by abilities like Illusion. Wherein the player can just invent whatever effect they want. Level and details all affect the believability of the illusion. Another ability might be Charm. Which covers all the hypnotic abilities of the class.

Pretty much the class powers then resolve around a charisma and/or an intelligence check.

I've been tossing around a similar idea for awhile, but for all wizard spell schools. I just haven't gotten around to finishing it up yet. That kind of system would enhance roleplaying, and kill the 100's of spells that do pretty much the same thing.

Here's my take on the Illusion spell.

ILLUSION (Wisdom):

Casting Time 1
Range 15 ft. per caster level
Radius 10 ft. cubic area per caster level
Duration 1 min. per level
Save intelligence
Spell Resistance no

This spell creates an illusion of an object, creature or force, as visualized by the character. The illusion follows a script determined by the caster without requiring the caster’s concentration. The illusion disappears if an opponent disbelieves for some reason and makes the required saving throw.

As the caster advances in level, several benefits and options are acquired. They are as follows.

Code: Select all

LEVEL       BENEFIT/OPTION
3           The illusion can include sounds, such stomping, rattling, tapping, etc.
5           The illusion can include intelligible speech.
7           The illusion can include smells.
9           The illusion's duration can become permanent.
11          The illusion can be programmed to activate when a specific condition occurs. This must be chosen when the spell is cast.

[Go0gleplex]

I'm fiddling with a system that simply strips away all the 'spells' of the illusionist. Instead, the spells are replaced by abilities like Illusion. Wherein the player can just invent whatever effect they want. Level and details all affect the believability of the illusion. Another ability might be Charm. Which covers all the hypnotic abilities of the class.

Pretty much the class powers then resolve around a charisma and/or an intelligence check.

Intriguing...and I can see how that would really make the illusionist stand out as something other than a glorified specialty mage.

[gideon_thorne]

I'm fiddling with a system that simply strips away all the 'spells' of the illusionist. Instead, the spells are replaced by abilities like Illusion. Wherein the player can just invent whatever effect they want. Level and details all affect the believability of the illusion. Another ability might be Charm. Which covers all the hypnotic abilities of the class.

Pretty much the class powers then resolve around a charisma and/or an intelligence check.

A radical departure... interesting

I am known for my radical departures.

I actually have a plan to do the same thing with the mages and clerics. Abilities instead of billions of spells. Probably broken down in a similar fashion to the Harry Potter movie classes. Charms, Transfiguration, Potions, ect.

[Peter]

Why stop at spells? How about killing all the classes and making one customizable class. Than nuking all the monsters and treasure, and replacing them with quick generator charts. All that would make C&C a real sandbox RPG.

[gideon_thorne]

Why stop at spells? How about killing all the classes and making one customizable class. Than nuking all the monsters and treasure, and replacing them with quick generator charts. All that would make C&C a real sandbox RPG.

Already did something that, bout a decade or more ago with my AD&D game.

Champions and its customisation got me to wander off the reservation of archetypes long since. I used to play with a game group that would spend much time switching back and forth between AD&D and Fantasy Hero. It was pretty common to create or acquire an ability in one system, and just move it over to the other.

[Zudrak]

Why stop at spells? How about killing all the classes and making one customizable class. Than nuking all the monsters and treasure, and replacing them with quick generator charts. All that would make C&C a real sandbox RPG.

Part of me likes that idea and part of me likes what serleran said in another thread about archetypes:

6) lack of "shining moments." Every character has something they're supposed to be good at doing. That's sort of the point of archetypes.

I can see both sides, but my favorite flavor is archetypes. One system I thought of using with magic users is Elements of Magic from EN World.

Whatever makes you and your group happy, I guess.

[Peter]

Wow, Elements of Magic is nice. Plus all the text is OGC, and it's on sale for 75 cents.

[gideon_thorne]

Why stop at spells? How about killing all the classes and making one customizable class. Than nuking all the monsters and treasure, and replacing them with quick generator charts. All that would make C&C a real sandbox RPG.

Part of me likes that idea and part of me likes what serleran said in another thread about archetypes:

6) lack of "shining moments." Every character has something they're supposed to be good at doing. That's sort of the point of archetypes.

I can see both sides, but my favorite flavor is archetypes. One system I thought of using with magic users is Elements of Magic from EN World.

Whatever makes you and your group happy, I guess.

Course, technically, one can already do something like this with C&C by using the magic item creation rules in the M&T. The part where it talks about the xp cost of powers. Combine that with the class and a half rules presented in the 4th printing and one can hatchet up the archetypes rather nicely.

[Zudrak]

Wow, Elements of Magic is nice. Plus all the text is OGC, and it's on sale for 75 cents.

I started working on incorporating that into my campaign just before my first wife died and did not get back to it. I read through it, though, and thought that it could really work well - "as is" or tweaked to fit a campaign.

[serleran]

Or... one could use any of at least three (by myself), not counting other ideas, methods for class deconstruction all of which have been posted in the past, and many of which are now "forbidden."

If that's what one wants.

[Lord Dynel]

I like your altered illusion spells, zara. I might have to adopt some of those changes for my game.

I agree with the removal of healing spells. But that's no suprise to those who know my thoughts on the subject. In my game, I found that False Life (and the concept of temporary hit points for a short duration) might work out quite well. Makes more sense to me and my players, too. YMMV, though.

[zarathustra]

Glad someone else might get some use of it Dynel. The Trolls explanation of Illusionist healing is fine, I just know my group of Grognards prefers a game where illusionists don't heal as well. Shrug.

Yeah I gather False Life is a 3e spell along the lines of Aid but to be honest I never played 3e so don't know the details. I could see that working.

With the other "shadow" spells in the Illusionist lineup (canon and the ones in the Crusaders Companion), for my campaign I'd probably come up with a Shadow Self (or Whipping Boy) in which a pale facsimilie of the PC touched appears, like a shadow in weak colour, this Whipping Boy receives the first X hit points of damage.

What level and duration etc was False Life?

[Lord Dynel]

This is the spell, as it's written in the SRD, zara.

False Life
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level or until discharged; see text

You harness the power of unlife to grant yourself a limited ability to avoid death. While this spell is in effect, you gain temporary hit points equal to 1d10 +1 per caster level (maximum +10).

Material Component
A small amount of alcohol or distilled spirits, which you use to trace certain sigils on your body during casting. These sigils cannot be seen once the alcohol or spirits evaporate.

Now in my house rules, the illusionst doesn't "harness the power of unlife" with this spell. I've changed the flavor text to something along the lines of "the caster imbues the target with false healing, some misguided bravado, and a misplaced sense of well-being with this spell." It could easily be a necromancy spell, though, too, if you so desire. IMC, it's an illusionist spell only and is a illusion-type spell (not necromancy...changed the whole nature of the spell, I did ).

I changed around some of the particulars, too. I changed the duration to 1 minute/level. I changed the target of the spell to "creature touched" (I made it not affect the caster, but you may want it to). I also made more powerful versions that granted 3d10 (4th level) and 5d10 (6th level) that replaced the other cure spells.

Here's a list of spells that I have subbed in for the "healing like" spells on the illusioist list, in case you're interested.

0-Level
First Aid (Silent Portal - negates sound from door or portal)

2nd-Level
Cure Light Wounds (False Life - grants 1d10 temp. HP for 1 min./level)

4th-Level
Cure Serious Wounds (Improved False Life - grants 3d10 temp HP for 1 min./level)

5th-Level
Neutralize Poison (Eyebite - caster can choose one gaze attack [charm, sicken, fear, or sleep] and can make a gaze attack against a single creature. Lasts 1 round/3 levels of caster.)

6th-Level
Cure Critical Wounds (Greater False Life - grants 5d10 temp. HP for 1 min./level)

7th-level
Restoration (Illusory Pit - foes in target area make Wis save or fall down on ground and they're falling. An attack on an affected creature breaks frees target, but they are stunned for one round and cannot act.)

9th-Level
Heal (Greater Shadow Evocation - works like Shadow Evocation, but includes the following spells: chain lightning, cone of cold, delayed blast fireball, and incendiary cloud. A successful saving throw reduces the mimicked spell to 60% of its normal damage, effect, and strength.)

Anyway...hope this is useful information!

[zarathustra]

Very neat solution. Thanks for the false life info.