Troll Lord Games

Okay, my next set of newbie questions ... I've read some posts here, and I think I have this down, but I just want to be sure, because the wording in the PHB (4th printing) is a little confusing.

I get clerics turning / destroying undead, but I'm a little unsure about evil clerics. The following selection (last paragraph on page 135) is the source of my confusion:

"Evil clerics can assume control of undead instead of turning them, and can also turn paladins as if the paladin’s [sic] were undead. The evil cleric makes a normal turn undead check to do so. If the check is a success, and the cleric is five levels higher than the hit dice of the type of undead being turned, the cleric may control the undead instead of destroying them."

The first sentence makes it sound as though controlling substitutes for turning, but the last one makes it sound as though it substitutes for destroying. If I understand it correctly, it's the latter (controlling substitutes for destroying).

Also, if I understand it, evil clerics can still turn (i.e., "rebuke") undead normally.

Also, the example in the first full paragraph on page 136 should be for a 6th level cleric (since you have to be 5 levels higher than the creatures being controlled, which in this case are skeletons, which have 1 HD), not 5th level, yes?

And finally, one question about evil clerics turning paladins: are paladins treated as unique creatures for the purposes of turning them (i.e., only one (+ CHA mod) paladin can be turned)?

Thanks for your patience - I don't think I have too many more questions to go ...

kreider204 wrote:"Evil clerics can assume control of undead instead of turning them, and can also turn paladins as if the paladin’s [sic] were undead. The evil cleric makes a normal turn undead check to do so. If the check is a success, and the cleric is five levels higher than the hit dice of the type of undead being turned, the cleric may control the undead instead of destroying them."

The first sentence makes it sound as though controlling substitutes for turning, but the last one makes it sound as though it substitutes for destroying. If I understand it correctly, it's the latter (controlling substitutes for destroying).

To me it is just reiterating the rules for turning undead. The section above (Destroying Undead) you are just replacing, destroying with controlling.

Under Destroying Undead just replace the word "destroy" with "control" when reading that section. That should clear it up.

Evil and Good clerics are pretty much the same when it comes to turning undead. Good clerics, when they succeed at a turn check, will make the undead flee. Evil clerics will rebuke them (make them cower in awe, stand still in check, etc.). The text says that undead turned by evil clerics "...will not automatically flee..." (emphasis mine) so it can be implied that evil clerics can make them flee the area if they so desire.

Now, for clerics (good or evil) five level higher, they have additional options. Good clerics can destroy undead if the check succeeds and evil clerics "can assume control of undead instead of turning them, and can also turn paladins as if they were undead."

My interpretation is:

Evil Cleric is not 5 levels higher -> Turn or Rebuke.
Evil Cleric is 5 levels higher -> Destroy or Control (or Rebuke, if they see fit). Can turn Paladins (And I would think it's implied they can Turn, too, again if they see fit).

Good Cleric is not 5 levels higher -> Turn
Good Cleric is 5 levels higher -> Destroy (or Turn, if they see fit)

I think Lord Dynel has it in a nutshell. The only thing I can add is that I would treat Paladins as unique for purposes of turning due to their abilities being on par with several unique undead.

Go0gleplex wrote:I think Lord Dynel has it in a nutshell. The only thing I can add is that I would treat Paladins as unique for purposes of turning due to their abilities being on par with several unique undead.

Agreed.

Excellent - thanks much!