Troll Lord Games

Hi everybody, do you use the rules "as written" for the spell preparing time?
If so, daily spell learning can take quite a lot of time, particularly at higher levels, since it takes 15 minutes to prepare each spell; even if you want to prepare a spell, having left a slot free, during the day, you have to rest a hour before spending 15 minutes learning the spell.
I'm not sure if I like this or not (at the moment I'm using the 3.5 rule "a hour to learn all the spells"), but this could be a heavy element to balance the (supposed) over - power of the spellcasting class, if compared to non spell casting ones: a spell casting caster could rely more on "non cast the day before" spells rather than learning entirely new spells.
Curious to know your opinions about this,
G.

It's rough. Would I use it? I don't know for sure. I used to use it in 2nd edition (when it was 10 minutes per spell level), but things are different these days. Wizards (and all spellcasters, really) didn't often blow their whole load of spells every day. So a wizard might only have a handful of spells to memorize each day. The "five minute work day" that everyone complains about is really borught about becuase there aren't limitations like this in place anymore, or that they aren't enforced (and I personally think 3.x was a little to easy).

At the expense of sounding like an old grognard, I do remember wizards in my games being careful not to cast out all their spells, if they could help it, because it was no small undertaking to memorize spells. I also remember, of course, the ranger and fighter off hunting for food while the cleric and wizard spent hours memorizing spells.

I'd say that if you have players from the 3rd or 4th era, it might be hard to pass off this rule without a struggle. If not, but you still think it's harsh, change it. You could implement that spells take 10 (or 15) minutes to memorize, regardless of level, or that memorizing a given level of spells takes 15 minutes per spell level (so all your 2nd level spells take 30 minutes, and 4th level spells take an hour, regardless of how many spells you're memorizing, for example). The one thing I find with people who embrace C&C is that they're not too hung up on what's written in the book to the extent that if something works better house-ruled, then more's the better. In the end, if it's something that you're happy with, and your players don't mind, then go for it.

Simply put, yes...

The reason is simple, it is part of the way to insure that mid-high level casters aren't the end-all, be-all characters in a party, leaving the warrior type to be just (to borrow a term from MMO RPGs) "tanks". So it is about balance among the classes, do you allow a fighter to regenerate all of his hit points after a single night of 8 hours of sleep? No, you have to heal up over time or through magic. Why then allow a wizard to regain all of her spells after a night of sleep plus an hour of study? Dealing with the Vancian style of spell casting, you are doing more than simply memorizing spells, you are actually weaving together the streams of power or favor of their deity, storing them within their body or spell components, bending the power to your will, and at the completion of the ritual (the casting of the spell), unleashing that power to bring about the desired result.

Without the time constraints of this preparation, the casters begin to overshadow the warrior types around level 7. They get back to their full compliment of abilities, while a warrior who mainly relies on his armor and HP to hold him through a day, the wizard sits back and casts her spells in "relative" safety since she can cast spells to resolve conflict (cause damage, fear, etc.) and do so multiple times a day, resetting after a night's rest. This was my biggest issue with the way the 3rd Ed. Sorcerer class was written, they should slowly regain their spell casting ability, not all in one fell swoop after 8 hours rest. This was also one of the reasons my groups dabbled with the spell casting system in many days gone by, and, for a while, left off a vancian type system for one that required skill checks to cast spells instead of simply casting them. The more you cast a spell, and longer you went without studying, the more difficult it became to cast it.

Now if 15 min/spell seems to much for you, you can modify it to have time based on level. So perhaps 15 minutes to meditate and prepare for the rituals required, then some number of minutes/spell level with cantrips counting as 1/2 level, just how long it takes you will need to determine, but do not make it to short less you again start risking the way overpowering of the casters. This lets low level casters regain their compliment of spells quickly and will not affect them much, mid level casters can get most of their spells back, and higher and epic level casters will need significant down time to regain their full spell compliments.

Galannor wrote:Hi everybody, do you use the rules "as written" for the spell preparing time?

Just starting a game. Yes, I plan on using it. Especially at high levels where the spell caster's power starts to outstrip other classes.

Use RAW for spell preparation time.

8 hours of rest, one hour of rest immediately before studying and 15 minutes per spell.

How that plays out in game time, as of late has been a hand wave with a decent nights rest. The players stay as long as they need - holed up or camped out.

Though I might add in the rule from the CKG (page 36, "Casting Spells From A Book"). Once the players get higher and the stressors kick in with little or no sleep, etc. The varient rule allows for the players to cast directly from their spell book. But there is a cost - the spell used is immediately destroyed (pages disolve), and the spells next to it (on either side) have to make a save or they'll be damaged or destroyed.

I do eight hours of rest, then an hour of memorization/prep time, just to keep the dungeon adventure moving.

One thing it combats is the aforementioned 5-minute work day. Man, I hate that term! The issue, and term, never reared its head to me until 3rd edition. Everyone rests 8 hours, then the casters take one additional hour to memorize spells and then they're off. I think that without the long prep time, the main consequence for draining all of a spell casters's spells is gone. As has been mentioned, it's a great balancing factor. There's nothing like having to wait an additional 2 hours (or 4 in C&C) while the 8th-level wizard memorizes his spells for the day. So, the 5-minute workday is reduced by making the caster think harder about when (and why) he's going to cast a spell, and that usually means the caster will have spells in his repritoire longer. That might shorten up the time tomorrow he's got to prep spells.

Just recently I've picked up the; Swords & Wizardry Complete Rulebook, and have enjoyed it immensely. Now I'm the type that likes to use things as RAW with very little house-ruling. But, in the spirit of OD&D I've decided to alter spell memorization just a little.

I really like the Swords & Wizardry's take on the combat sequence (I'm talking about the alternate combat sequence No. 3) using ticks instead of the base 6 segment as written. It just really highlights more dexterity based combatants rather than them being at a disadvantage with only one action per round. Part of the No. 3 method is it takes into account the time needed for spells to be cast, in relation to other characters and what is going on around them. This got me thinking about spell preparation, in particular higher class levels vs. lower class levels.

I'm going to house-rule that once a magic-user reaches 5th level he does not need to memorize 1st level spells. In sequence the magic-user reaching 6th level no longer has to take the time to memorize 1st and 2nd level spells. Keep in mind that I am still going to be using the vanican type of spell-casting, I'm just cutting the spell memorization time down for higher level characters. So, even though there is no time spent memorizing, it'll still take up a spell spot.

Because I'm using the combat sequence no.3. Clerics and Druids do not need to pray for spells at the beginning of the day. Combat sequence no.3 has penalties (which are really time added on) for casting higher spells. To me this just makes it easier to say that the Cleric/Druid is praying, during combat, for that spell. Again vanican is still in effect and they still have to select the spells they want at the beginning of the day. I'm also toying with the idea that their god just might not want to grant them that spell and it doesn't work. They don't lose that spell it just doesn't work and they can try again. I figure this will make their gods more real and not some kind of rule.

A little off-topic, but I am going to enforce encumbrance rules but not make it a drag of upkeep, but some real world consequences and even using it as some plot-hooks.

I'm also doing away with the 8 hour sleep period and I am just going to use each specific incident to determine downtime.

I'm also going to make age relevant. To me a campaign is not a series of adventures, but disbanding for sometime, then coming back together for a new adventure. The downtime could be a month, 6 months a year or whatever I feel is important in my sandbox world.

Still off topic, I realize introducing the 3.5-4e crowd to a OD&D type experience, I'm going to have to carefully explain that part of OD&D was the desire to build your own castles/cathedrals etc. and stocking them with people. Making sure that they understand that it won't just be about book-keeping, but has some real advantages, like having your own armoursmith, alchemist, carpenter will be a big advantage for higher levels. Plus the importance of Charisma being able to attract PC quality NPC's as followers. Which, in turn you need a high Charisma for loyalty and morale (Which also spins off into mass combat.) and the use of Charisma as a way of using it in a diplomatic sense. Just trying to impress that Charisma is not a dump stat.

I think it is going to be a challenge, at first, to get the players away from "balanced" and "the importance of hard stats over role-playing"; but, if I get the right people that are willing to put aside the new D&D and want to try a D&D they are unfamiliar with, I hope they'll find it liberating and realize they can have fun with both systems.

Given my magic is anime-flavored, memorizing spells would be humorous.

"Let's see. I need to memorize my fireball. Look it up in my spell book, look at the single word trigger for the fireball ('fireball') and stare at it for fifteen minutes to remember that I have one."

Yeah...that's just not going to work. A full night's rest plus one hour works.