Troll Lord Games

Well Met All!

I hope I am posting this in the correct place. If there is one thing I really like about D&D4e that I'd love to pull into C&C, it's the Warlord class. I am looking for what the best way to convert the 4e Warlord to C&C might be. SO, check out the following and let me know what you think...

Note: this warlord design is based off the C&C knight. Where the knight abilities can be used once per day, affecting great numbers of targets for multiple rounds, the warlord abilities affect a single target for a single round, but can do so multiple times per day.

I am seeing where the knights is the brave leader, commanding large numbers on an epic battlefield, the warlorld is the "in the trenches" leader, affecting single individuals more directly.

Knight abilities are posted in italics, while the warlord are in red. (for comparison). Thoughts? To tough? Not tough enough? Good/bad? Thanks in advance!!


INSPIRE: The mere presence of a knight upon the field of battle can alter the mood of armies and change the tide of combat. This gives the knight the ability to inspire companions and followers. Any person friendly to a knight’s immediate endeavor gains a bonus to hit equal to the knight’s charisma modifier. This ability can be used once per day and lasts a number of rounds equal to the knight’s level. The number of persons that are affected increases as the knight gains levels. At 1st level, the knight can affect up to 12 creatures. The ability affects up to 25 creatures at 3rd level, up to 50 creatures at 5th level, up to 250 creatures at 7th level, up to 1000 creatures at 9th level, up to 5,000 creatures at 12th level and 20,000 creatures at 16th level. This ability cannot be used in conjunction with embolden or demoralize.

TACTICAL PRESENCE: A warlord directs squads and small tactical groups with grit, determination and experience. A warlord can use his tactical presence to guide and direct companions and followers. Any time the warlord uses this ability, one ally within line of sight of the warlord, that can hear and understand the warlords commands, gains a bonus to hit equal to the warlords charisma modifier. To use this ability, the warlord must announce the use of Tactical Presence on the target allies turn, before the attack die is roll. This bonus lasts only for that one attack however a warlord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 2, +1 for every 4 levels of experience (as shown here):

1st -3rd level, 2 times a day.
4th -7th level, 3 times a day
8th -11th level, 4 times a day
12th – 15th level, 5 times a day

This bonus to hit increases also by +1 for every 8 levels of experience (charisma +1 at level 8, charisma +2 at level 16, charisma + 3 at level 24, etc to a maximum of +5).

EMBOLDEN: At 3rd level, the knight’s confidence and fearlessness in the face of danger instills courage in their companions and followers. Any companions or followers within 30 feet of the knight gains a bonus of +1 to strength, constitution, dexterity, and intelligence saving throws, and a +2 to wisdom and charisma saving throws. This ability can be used once per day and lasts a number of rounds equal to the knight’s level. This ability cannot be used in conjunction with demoralize or inspire.

SHAKE IT OFF: At 3rd level, using nothing more than a shout of encouragement, a warlord can impart increased resilience. To use this ability one ally within line of sight of the warlord, that can hear and understand the warlords commands, gains a +3 bonus to a single saving throw. To use this ability, the warlord must announce the use of Shake It Off on the target allies turn, before the saving throw die is roll. This bonus lasts only for that one saving throw however as a warlord can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his charisma modifier.

DEMORALIZE: At 5th level, the knight causes fear and dread in the ranks of foes and enemy forces. Enemies to the knight’s immediate endeavor suffer a penalty of -4 to charisma checks. In addition, the affected foes must successfully save versus fear at a -4 penalty or suffer a -1 penalty to hit. This ability can be used once per day and lasts a number of rounds equal to the knight’s level. The number of creatures that can be affected increases as the knight gains levels. At 5th level, the knight can affect up to 25 creatures. The ability affects up to 100 creatures at 7th level, up to 250 creatures at 9th level, up to 1,000 creatures at 12th level and 5,000 creatures at 16th level. This ability cannot be use in conjunction with embolden and inspire.

Commanders Strike: At 8th level, the warlord can shout tactical directions to aid his companions in taking down their enemies quickly. To use this ability one ally within line of sight of the warlord, that can hear and understand the warlords commands, takes either a melee or a ranged attack at a target of the warlords choosing. This attack must be something that can be completed in one action (swing a weapon, fire an arrow, etc) and cannot be used for casting spells. The warlord cannot direct targets to move, unless they use the charge action. The warlord uses this ability on his turn, but this does not count as his action for that turn. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to 2, +1 for every 4 levels of experience (as tactical presence) but only once per turn.

BATTLEFIELD DOMINANCE: At 8th level, the knight can use all three abilities; demoralize, embolden and inspire in the same round. This is in addition to their regular use individually.

I have nothing to match up with Battlefield Dominance, and may not need anything

CALL-TO-ARMS: At 10th level, a knight reaches a level of renown that allows him to attract followers to his cause. By establishing a stronghold, a knight can attract 2d10 followers of 0 level every month. For every 40 followers that flock to the knight’s standard, a 1st level knight heeds the call as well. When 80 followers have been attracted, a knight of at least 5th level is attracted. This cycle repeats until the knight can no longer pay for the upkeep of his followers. Thus, when 120 followers are reached, another 1st level knight comes, and when 160 followers are reached, another 5th level knight arrives. Followers must be supported or they leave. 0 level followers require 2 gp per month and 1st level knights cost 100 gp per month. Every knight of a higher level requires 100 gp per level per month.

Probably run Call to Arms pretty much the same, but maybe smaller numbers.


PRIME ATTRIBUTE: Charisma
HIT DICE: d10
ALIGNMENT: Any
WEAPONS ALLOWED: Any except Code-of-Conduct limitations
WEAPONS ALLOWED: Any
ARMOR ALLOWED: Any
ABILITIES: Birthright mount, horsemanship, weapon training, inspire, embolden, demoralize, call-to-arms
ABILITIES: Tactical Presence, Shake it off, Commanders Strike
Advances as a Knight

OK, 28 views and no comments? Is this a bad idea? You can be honest, I can take it ;oD Heh, heh.

I would give a critique except, I have no idea as to what a 4E Warlord looks like...

I spotted this last night but was a bit too tired to process it. Will take a stab at it tonight.

However, like Arduin (and many of us here) I have no experience with 4E. Could you give a brief description of the 4E warlord class - what niche or role it's intended to fill?

I'll second knowing nothing about the Warlord class, nor much about 4E for that matter.

So, speaking purely from a lack of knowledge, it's at least interesting. I think I'd personally stick to the Knight as offered, but I tend to be a bit of a "purist" when it comes to game mechanics (usually, but not always).

Well, really, all the warlord is, is a "leadership" style fighter. Barking out orders and giving commands and stuff. It's a neat concept, but I'll be the first to say I',m not sure it's needed in 4e, but if there is a niche for it, thought it might be interesting.

Lobo316 wrote:Well, really, all the warlord is, is a "leadership" style fighter. Barking out orders and giving commands and stuff.

Sounds like one of the descriptions fro the C&C Fighter. I think the Knight in C&C fills the "Executive" fighter type niche well enough then. A Knight was simply medieval EU's version of a "Warlord" anyway.

I remember the Warlord, but only played 2? sessions of 4E, so I can't really make a comparison. I played a halfling rogue who was more acrobatic and didn't seem to fall in line with the spells and/or feats presented. I got rid of that phb a long time ago.

If you love the warlord and must have one, it looks like a fair enough class, i doubt it would 'wreck' the game. Although if he kept yelling at my pc I'd probably turn him into a frog. If i wanted to be told what to do I would have been a soldier, not a freeewheeling adventurer.

As to whether it is needed... Probably not, there's already the knight, the bard and spellcasting options to boost pc performance, which is why I don't think many are going wild about it.

Thanks for the feedback gang. Thinking I am going to let this one fall by the wayside for now. Heck, there are 13 classes in the standard rules, should be something to appeal to everyone. Plus, I am throwing in the sorcerer (just cuz I really like the sorcerer).

Thanks again!

Got chance to read this and ponder a bit, and I think it's reasonable enough as far as power goes. I like how you used the charisma modifier as a control.

But one of the things that appeal to me about C&C is the minimal bookkeeping required compared to other systems, so all the "x per day" tracking would be more than I'd prefer.

But if you've got players coming from 3/3.5 or 4E who really need to have their options and powers, this would be a good transition!

Not sure how I missed this but overall I think it looks workable. I quite like the warlord in 4E. I always felt like the Knight was a very solid representation of it for C&C. 4E is incredibly tactical and the warlord epitomizes the tactics of the game. This makes him a harder sell in C&C. That being said, I think you've done a good job of approximating it without breaking anything. I'll make a few comments specifically.

"TACTICAL PRESENCE: " I wouldn't rip the 4E wording exactly. It may be legal, but it will be a turnoff for the people who dislike 4E. I have no problem with it personally. Just sayin. Also, this seems like what 4E would call an Immediate Interupt. You're using it on someone elses turn and you would be doing it alot. This may feel weird in C&C where doing core stuff off your turn is less common. Off-turn actions are part of what slows 4E combat down to a slow grind at times. I'm not sure what the solution is. Perhaps on your turn, you designate the beneficiary of your tactical skills, giving them a bonus on their next attack. But this is a bit more book keeping. Also, the scaling bonus to hit is very 4E and I'm not sure it would be well balanced in a ruleset where monsters ACs don't raise in correlation to level the same way they do in 4E.

"SHAKE IT OFF: " Another identical name to a 4E power and another off-turn action. This warlord build has a potential to be a scene hog if he's getting a turn each round and acting on other players turns frequently. Maybe I'm overstating this but I'd be a bit concerned that he's not taking too much spotlight. In 4E isn't not a problem because everyone has similar capabilities. In C&C, less so. Also, this power is really designed to deal with ongoing conditions which C&C doesn't have, thus necessitating it as an "interrupt".

"Commanders Strike: " This, giving other players an opportunity to act on YOUR turn may help balance out the scene hogging this build might be prone to. However, this one feels overpowered. I would say you as a warlord would need to sacrifice something to do this, at the very least your move action. If you can grant a free attack from the fighter on your turn PLUS move and attack yourself, that seems pretty powerful.

Now, all that may come across as negative, but it's not meant to. I'm simply critiquing the possible issues. If one of my players came to me with this build, I'd definitely allow it and see how it plays for a few levels. I think you've done a good job of capturing the "cool" of the 4E warlord. If it were me, I might add one more ability that sacrifices an attack in order to inspire a little healing for a comrade. Like the way 4E warlords can grant temp HP. Maybe once per day, a warlord when adjacent to a comrade at 0 HP, can inspire him back to 1HP or attack one more time. Call it "You Can Do This!" or something. One thing I like about the Warlord in 4E and "leaders" in 4E generally is that they take a little heat off the cleric for healing. I think they go WAY too far with so many different healers and second wind and self healing and surges and millions of HP, but the warlord inspiring people to stay on their feet longer (which is essentially what they do as a healer) is pretty cool and I don't think a bit of this would hurt C&C in the slightest.

Here's an easy solution...


The reason C n C core books have only a few classes in the,...


are you ready for this ?



Is because all you need is the core classes and an imagination !


You want a warlord, pick one of the fighter core classes and role play all those abilities through the siege engine rules !



You can do just about anything in C n C through a good background and extensive role playing.


This gaming system is wide open to players with creative minds and a willingness to go the extra mile.




Imagine that, role playing your abilities instead of just being granted them at a higher XP advancement for having a munchkin class.




Enjoy

I also see people who make classes in C n C, with many extra abilities or power but reference an existing class for XP.


I do not own the CK'rs guide yet, so not sure if there is an existing method to creating new classes in C n C, but in my opinion, if a character is allowed to create a new class, rather than role playing a core class off using siege to get the abilities, then the XP should be significantly higher than existing core classes, to be fair to the players who do have an imagination.



just one mans opinion.

BudaZoa wrote:but in my opinion, if a character is allowed to create a new class, rather than role playing a core class off using siege to get the abilities, then the XP should be significantly higher than existing core classes, to be fair to the players who do have an imagination.

just one mans opinion.

2nd Edition took that view also.