I guess if Steve threw out there some really good stuff, and good reasoning for it, I'd most likely be on board again. TLG has my support, no doubt, but I still have to justify where teh gaming budget dollars go.
The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
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Lord Dynel
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
The Trolls have been pretty good about that, making available the new stuff. I would imagine that if there are changes made to the books, they would almost definitely release the additions. I wouldn't forsee any rules changes, but I am in no way associated with Troll Lord Games.
There doesn't seem to be anything that's "broke," as far as I can recollect so I wouldn't think there'd be anything in that capacity. I would expect clarifications (like the SR1 stuff, EV clarifications, etc) to be in a new printing. I guess this is wishful thinking on my part - I don't see any issues with the classes, races, and the rules themselves (don't care for some of the new spells, but that's my own issue) so I'm hoping not much more gets "tweaked." The type of revisions like the ones listed above would be welcome, in my opinion, but I'd rather not have any of the remade of classes, and things like that. And with Steve's post, I think this is exactly what it will be - some errata, some clairifications, etc. The 'guts" as he said, would not be changing. I was on board the first time around because I totally agreed with the barbarianand monk revisions, as well as sporucing up the illusionist spell selection.
I guess if Steve threw out there some really good stuff, and good reasoning for it, I'd most likely be on board again. TLG has my support, no doubt, but I still have to justify where teh gaming budget dollars go.
I guess if Steve threw out there some really good stuff, and good reasoning for it, I'd most likely be on board again. TLG has my support, no doubt, but I still have to justify where teh gaming budget dollars go.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Wow!Traveller wrote:@Rhuvein: The PHB has a long way to go before it can surpass the 17+ printings of the AD&D PHB. Yet out of those 17+ printings, there were only two or three errors corrected in the entire run, and nothing after the 6th printing.
I had thought there were only 7 or 8!
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
An advantage of being a member of The Acaeum. You tend to learn these things via osmosis. 
The last printing of the 1st edition PHB was released a year after the release of the 2d edition PHB.
The last printing of the 1st edition PHB was released a year after the release of the 2d edition PHB.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Sounds like there's a fair amount of errata to be dealt with. That's a key concern. Obviously, some clarification to SR, EV, and grapple(?)and a few others methinks. There are folks on this forum who know where the problem spots are. I'm far from that. When the time comes to reprint M&T, run that baby over with a fine tooth comb, as well. Otherwise, as long as the hardcovers are of the Walsworth glossy-covered variety, I'd say you're good to go.
- kreider204
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
+1000000000000. After the CKG, I'm gun shy about buying anything that the Trolls print in-house again unless the quality really improves and I can get a chance to look closely at the physical book first (i.e., via my local FLGS).tylermo wrote:Otherwise, as long as the hardcovers are of the Walsworth glossy-covered variety, I'd say you're good to go.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
What exactly would make it a more "D&D"ish cover? I have pretty much every D&D PHB released and I can't really see much consistency of art or style to them. Most include neither a dungeon nor a dragon. Some show magic, some don't. Some show combat, some don't. Not trying to be bookish, I'm honestly curious. I didn't realize there was a D&D look that C&C was somehow not adhering to.redwullf wrote:Oh, it's a beautiful cover, to be sure. However, as has been pointed out here, it's the "feel" of the art. C&C is, after all, a type of D&D - I don't want to call it a simulacrum or version...but, let's face it, it's an OGL rendition of "the world's most popular role playing game." When I first saw the PHB, the only clue that I had that it might have something to do with D&D is the name, "Player's Handbook." That title alone made me flip through it. The cover art didn't have a "D&D feel" to it and didn't give me the clue to pick it up. A fantasy RPG, yes, but not a D&D-based one.Frost wrote:Hmm... am I the only one that really digs the current cover? I really like the chimeras in action.
So, I get what the others are saying from first hand experience. Giving the book a D&D'ish cover will be a welcome invitation to have a look to those familiar with the original game. Having said that, I can only hope that we will continue to see Peter Bradley's astonishing, beautiful artwork throughout the tomes.
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
I doubt it's something that I can easily describe, since saying something is "D&D'ish" or not is completely arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it's the low fantasy impression the cover leaves: No obvious spell casters, the warrior (paladin?) in the foreground is wearing armor that is more historically accurate than fantasy-themed, etc. Why, his armor even bears what appears to be more or less a red iron cross, rather than some fantasy holy symbol. I get the impression I'm looking at the cover for a game of low (or no) magic medieval style role playing, not the high fantasy I would expect from D&D. You can only barely make out someone extending a wand towards the creature, something easily missed at a glance.mbeacom wrote:What exactly would make it a more "D&D"ish cover? I have pretty much every D&D PHB released and I can't really see much consistency of art or style to them. Most include neither a dungeon nor a dragon. Some show magic, some don't. Some show combat, some don't. Not trying to be bookish, I'm honestly curious. I didn't realize there was a D&D look that C&C was somehow not adhering to.
At any rate, I think it's the "low fantasy" feel and historically-similar symbology that belies the high fantasy game hidden within. That's the best I can do to describe the non-D&D'ish "feeling" the cover gives me.

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs. He presents opportunities
for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own.” -- E. G. G.
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Yes, and to steal from SCotUS Justice Potter Stewart, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . but I know it when I see it . . . "redwullf wrote:I doubt it's something that I can easily describe, since saying something is "D&D'ish" or not is completely arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
I think they should go back to 1st print covers. That, to me, says Castles & Crusades.
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Ok, yeah, I can kind of see that now that you point it out. I mean, I quickly noticed the magic wand and the magically hurled hammer. But you are right, that's not particularly prominent and the sabre-toothed cat leaping from what appears to be a magical myst, on second look may just be a burning forest. I think the thing you hit on the most for me is probably the appearance of the Knight. It's definitely a "familiar" look rather than fantastic. Certainly a full cover graphic would be nice. Peter bradley does even better when you give him some space to work with. D&D'ness aside, I actually quite like the low fantasy feel of the art. Newer D&D art has gotten so over the top it reminds me of Michael Bay, more than it does Martin Scorcese.redwullf wrote:I doubt it's something that I can easily describe, since saying something is "D&D'ish" or not is completely arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it's the low fantasy impression the cover leaves: No obvious spell casters, the warrior (paladin?) in the foreground is wearing armor that is more historically accurate than fantasy-themed, etc. Why, his armor even bears what appears to be more or less a red iron cross, rather than some fantasy holy symbol. I get the impression I'm looking at the cover for a game of low (or no) magic medieval style role playing, not the high fantasy I would expect from D&D. You can only barely make out someone extending a wand towards the creature, something easily missed at a glance.mbeacom wrote:What exactly would make it a more "D&D"ish cover? I have pretty much every D&D PHB released and I can't really see much consistency of art or style to them. Most include neither a dungeon nor a dragon. Some show magic, some don't. Some show combat, some don't. Not trying to be bookish, I'm honestly curious. I didn't realize there was a D&D look that C&C was somehow not adhering to.
At any rate, I think it's the "low fantasy" feel and historically-similar symbology that belies the high fantasy game hidden within. That's the best I can do to describe the non-D&D'ish "feeling" the cover gives me.
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- kreider204
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeSUuj98Rx0mbeacom wrote:Newer D&D art has gotten so over the top it reminds me of Michael Bay, more than it does Martin Scorcese.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Exactly. If "this" is D&D, I don't want it anywhere near my Castles & Crusades cover art.kreider204 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeSUuj98Rx0mbeacom wrote:Newer D&D art has gotten so over the top it reminds me of Michael Bay, more than it does Martin Scorcese.
http://attachments.conceptart.org/forum ... 1199114066
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
And you have to ask yourself - if it was still selling, Why or Why did they go to 2nd Edition or even stop printing 1st. Perhaps that's what we'll see in the interim before 5th Edition D&D Comes out - a release of the "Classic" editions with all known errata - version 1 through 3 and BECMI. Would be nice to see that line along with Essentials.Traveller wrote:The last printing of the 1st edition PHB was released a year after the release of the 2d edition PHB.
Anyway on another note, can some one post a picture of each of the Castles & Crusades printing's covers? (including the red leather versions) as I'd like to see what they all look like - especially the first and second as I don't know what they look like (only have Red Leather, Yellow and Green). Thanks!
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Lord Dynel
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Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
I can kind of see this. I like Peter's art, and while it's centered, these big hunter green borders take a lot of the attention away from the art. And redwullf sums up my feelings on it, too - it does seem a bit low fantasy. I know it's his style, (and I won't be able to say this right, I'm sure), the colors are very similar. Even the red, and the "magic trail" from the hammer all seems to blend with the colors around it, and with the green borders. A cover doesn't need to, but - to me - the art doesn't grab me. It's a piece that I enjoy, and it's pleasing to look at, but I don't know how many people have glanced through book covers and thought, "Holy crap! I need to open this book!" And I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Pete and his work. I just think it could be a little more attention getting, without being of the "new style" of pointy edges and buckles the newer D&D art is. When I think of D&D art, I'm reminded of the work Elmore, Easley, and Caldwell - bright, vivid images of attention-grabbing high fantasy.redwullf wrote:I doubt it's something that I can easily describe, since saying something is "D&D'ish" or not is completely arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it's the low fantasy impression the cover leaves: No obvious spell casters, the warrior (paladin?) in the foreground is wearing armor that is more historically accurate than fantasy-themed, etc. Why, his armor even bears what appears to be more or less a red iron cross, rather than some fantasy holy symbol. I get the impression I'm looking at the cover for a game of low (or no) magic medieval style role playing, not the high fantasy I would expect from D&D. You can only barely make out someone extending a wand towards the creature, something easily missed at a glance.
At any rate, I think it's the "low fantasy" feel and historically-similar symbology that belies the high fantasy game hidden within. That's the best I can do to describe the non-D&D'ish "feeling" the cover gives me.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
Because to the best of my recollection Gary was receiving royalties for the books and the POG (Person Ousting Gary) didn't want to pay him. The most effective way to achieve this end? Print a new edition.TheMetal1 wrote:And you have to ask yourself - if it was still selling, Why or Why did they go to 2nd Edition or even stop printing 1st.!Traveller wrote:The last printing of the 1st edition PHB was released a year after the release of the 2d edition PHB.
Re: The (un)official "OMG a 5th printing is coming!!" thread
No, not just you. It took a little getting used to, but I do really like it. Then again, I still really like the original parchment/map covers, but then I've got a bit of a Thing about maps. It seems strange to be planning a new cover regime when the CKG has finally seen print (not that you'd think it here in Blighty; the usual outlets haven't got a page between 'em, and the handful of Amazon vendors are asking frankly idiotic prices) in the current format. It makes for a bit of a mish-mash of a look on the game shop shelf.Frost wrote:Hmm... am I the only one that really digs the current cover? I really like the chimeras in action.
"History teaches us that men behave wisely after they've exhausted all other alternatives."