Troll Lord Games

When the time comes for a 5th printing of the phb, I'm wondering what some of you would like to see on the cover. I'm assuming the C&C logo on the Winter Runes book will be used? If there is to be new cover art, I say use the art from the portrait screen. It's simply one of Peter Bradley's best. Plus it screams fantasy adventure gaming. It's a shame that part of that great piece would have to be on the back cover. As memory serves, I think it was used as placeholder art for the ckg. I realize it's art that everybody has seen before, but it would make a fantastic cover for the flagship book. What say you, Peter and Stephen?

Put on the new logo. Have the cover art take a whole page rather than the 1/3 it is now. Try to get more (If not all) pictures of the monsters in; Monsters & Treasures.

The 5th printing is closer than any of us suspect....er, well except me.

We are definitely going back to our roots and the cover will be a full page bleed off the front. Peter and I are having long discussions about it now.

I'm so super impressed with the cover for Lion in the Ropes, the detail on the characters, that I'm wanting the same for the PH. Its one of Peter's (many) strong points.

Steve

Like most people here, I don't know where to put errata, or where to send it. So, I'll just put it here and apologies if this has been pointed out before. (Which it probably has) But, is much bigger than just a typo or clarification.

The Magic section. (Players Handbook page #49)

Under; Magic: "The Nature of Magic" There are 5 paragraphs. Paragraph #2 and paragraph #5 (That proceeds to Page #50) are identical.

I will be definitely be buying the 5th printing solely so I have a copy for myself and send out a copy, into the wilds, of the players.

Sir Ironside wrote:Like most people here, I don't know where to put errata, or where to send it. So, I'll just put it here and apologies if this has been pointed out before. (Which it probably has) But, is much bigger than just a typo or clarification.

The Magic section. (Players Handbook page #49)

Under; Magic: "The Nature of Magic" There are 5 paragraphs. Paragraph #2 and paragraph #5 (That proceeds to Page #50) are identical.

I will be definitely be buying the 5th printing solely so I have a copy for myself and send out a copy, into the wilds, of the players.

Tsk. Here you consider it an error to have two paragraphs which are identical, yet you're going to buy two copies of the 5th printing -- said copies being identical to each other.

(says the grandpa with four copies of the C&C Player's book in four different formats)

MormonYoYoMan wrote:Tsk. Here you consider it an error to have two paragraphs which are identical, yet you're going to buy two copies of the 5th printing -- said copies being identical to each other.

Well I'm only buying 1 copy and the 4th counts as the other.

And the 5th will have a new awesome cover. Doesn't make them identical.

Am I the only one that likes the old logo over the new one? I like the new one, don't get me wrong, but I like the older one better. Nostalgic, I guess.

But I am in favor of full-cover art!

Yeah, I think I'm partial to the older Logo than the new brown one. I can't seem to shake the Star Wars/UPS Vibe, even though, it is only in my imagination.

Isn't there some way TLG can set up a google doc and give people access, that way corrections wouldn't be redundant.

I'm not real familiar with this, any thoughts?

Steve

Troll Lord wrote:Isn't there some way TLG can set up a google doc and give people access, that way corrections wouldn't be redundant.

I'm not real familiar with this, any thoughts?

Steve

I know you can have a common doc on GoogleDocs. Multiple people can access same document.
http://support.google.com/docs/bin/answ ... swer=49008

Ardie leads you correctly. I use Google Docs all the time for collaborating and editing. And ghost-writing....there's more profit in ghost-writing than there is in real writing, I think!

TheMetal1 wrote:Yeah, I think I'm partial to the older Logo than the new brown one. I can't seem to shake the Star Wars/UPS Vibe, even though, it is only in my imagination.

Well, I was wanting to put Unklar Strikes Back under the logo, but for some reason Steve wouldn't go for it?

gideon_thorne wrote: Well, I was wanting to put Unklar Strikes Back under the logo

Would that be Unklar Fester from the Addams Family?

1. All monsters illustrated.
2. Dispense with the half naked soft porn women.
It's 2012 show a woman that is strong and one that doesn't need to
be at the heels of a man (or that strongly implies heterosexual centered lesbianism)
3. Not just a picture that covers the whole cover, but something that is more
dynamic and understandable. It took me awhile to get the shadow cat thing.
And do we really need a christian Cross in a fantasy game?
4. It would be nice to have illustrations for the magic items.
5. I like cartoons (they remind me of the old 2nd ed) in my opinion though they were not all that funny.
6. If we're talking the Troll Lord logo that is at the top of the website , I like that one. The Siege Engine one
gets lost when it's shrunk down though.
Those are the ones off the top of my head. Numbers one and 2 are my biggest peeves.

nightstorm wrote: And do we really need a Christian cross in a fantasy game?

You mean that's not Humakt's rune?

Cover art needs evoke mystery and adventure. It doesnt need to be an action shot. It should have multiple figures.
I am a big fan of Peter's art.
Dont be cartoony or manga inspired.

The original cover for the AD&D PHB is/was the single most inspiring piece of cover art i have ever seen.

nightstorm wrote: And do we really need a christian Cross in a fantasy game?

Well, that really depends. Ill say this. The symbol of the cross pre-dates Christianity. Folks like myself are inclined to incorporate the design as one of its older meanings. The 4 elements, for instance.

Dead Horse wrote:Cover art needs evoke mystery and adventure. It doesnt need to be an action shot. It should have multiple figures.
I am a big fan of Peter's art.
Dont be cartoony or manga inspired.

The original cover for the AD&D PHB is/was the single most inspiring piece of cover art i have ever seen.

I'll also point this out. Me and Steve are going over the cover design, and we might just be going with a look that will do just that. An Idea that I had about 8 months ago.. Or whatever time its been? I don't keep track of time very well.

nightstorm wrote: 2. Dispense with the half naked soft porn women.
It's 2012 show a woman that is strong and one that doesn't need to
be at the heels of a man (or that strongly implies heterosexual centered lesbianism)

nightstorm wrote:2. Dispense with the half naked soft porn women.
It's 2012 show a woman that is strong and one that doesn't need to
be at the heels of a man (or that strongly implies heterosexual centered lesbianism)
.

Have to agree with this. Just bought the new landscape CK screens and frankly I'm embarrassed to use them when my buddy's wife plays with us. Even if we assume we're all not sexist, where's the logic of being nearly naked in a cold dank dungeon/cavern, fighting a creature with sharp claws/fangs or weapons? Especially when every man around you is appropriately dressed for the situation? (that is covered in armor if a fighter, or warm leather/woolen robes if not).

nightstorm wrote: 2. Dispense with the half naked soft porn women.

Hear, hear.

About the scantily clad women pics.

Does your buddies wife mind it ? or do you mind it because she is there?

Four women play at my table. None of them have ever complained about the art. Two of them have said they love the art. One finds her own cheesecake art to represent her character. All four like figs that look "racey". There have been arguements over which fig gets to be used by who. The cheese cake figs are the most sought after.

Heck i used to have a lady that named her character things like "Angel Thighs, and Snack Pie".

Dont be a prude because you think thats what others want. Heck most supermarket check out magazines have models with less clothes on.

I like the "racey" art. Dont go changing because a few people are uptight.

My wife used to wear armor and enjoy combat. Art showing women in impractical armor is guaranteed to annoy her.

Dead Horse wrote: Dont be a prude because you think thats what others want. .

Because I believe naked women fighting monsters is stupid, because I believe naked women in fantasy tends to be sexist and often misogynistic (NOT saying Peter Bradley intends any of this) does not mean I am a prude. It does mean I find our culture turning girls into objects to ogle and sexualize at younger and younger ages and every image implying women are at their most culturally important when they are naked or close to it offends me. C&C is my favorite game and one that is ideal for kids and frankly certain kinds of images are simply not appropriate for kids or in certain venues or games. Ever see a pic of a naked woman on the cover of monopoly or risk? Why just because it is a fantasy game do we need naked women? And when every man in the picture is wearing situationally appropriate clothing how is it not sexist when the women are naked? There certainly is a place for such images but it is not on a game partially marketed to children.

And yes my friend's wife has mentioned she is offended by the CK screen. If I remember correctly her first comment was "why the f__k is that woman naked fighting a demon?" she then expressed annoyance that the woman is lying on the ground near naked, while two men (one a dwarf) seem to be protecting her from the demon (balrog?) The image just reeks of poor defenseless woman needing a big strong mans protection. How is that not sexist?

Dead Horse wrote:The original cover for the AD&D PHB is/was the single most inspiring piece of cover art i have ever seen.

It was a piece of art that summed up what the tome was about. Excellent. While I find an attractive female nice to look at, I'd rather see any female attired in garb that is appropriate to the situation.

gideon_thorne wrote:Well, that really depends. Ill say this. The symbol of the cross pre-dates Christianity. Folks like myself are inclined to incorporate the design as one of its older meanings. The 4 elements, for instance.

That may be, but I'd wager most will see the red crusader's cross. Thus, I agree, it sends the wrong message to those who may want to try a fantasy RPG, and not a medieval one.

dachda wrote:Why just because it is a fantasy game do we need naked women?

I don't feel very strongly about this argument one way or another, but will say I detect some prudery here. There's a fair share of bare-chested male barbarian types represented in the genre, so it goes both ways. To answer your question, though, because! The scantily clad women have been a staple of the fantasy (and sci-fi) genre for decades. Seen any comic books in the past, say, 30 years? Do you decry the sexist imagery of just about every comic book ever produced? Monsters, brawny dudes, and women in bikini chain mail are the imagery we associate with this hobby. Since C&C emulates our beloved Old School games, let's keep them old school. If you want 21st century political correctness, talk to WotC, I'm sure they'll gladly accommodate such requests in 5e.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (As Dennis Miller used to say when he was still funny, relevent, and interesting)

redwullf wrote: That may be, but I'd wager most will see the red crusader's cross. Thus, I agree, it sends the wrong message to those who may want to try a fantasy RPG, and not a medieval one.

I think the two are inherently tied together. As a generalization, most Fantasy RPGs are based on a Medieval setting. Considering the game is called Castles & Crusades that is going to immediately invoke medieval christian imagery.

dachda wrote:C&C is my favorite game and one that is ideal for kids and frankly certain kinds of images are simply not appropriate for kids or in certain venues or games. Ever see a pic of a naked woman on the cover of monopoly or risk? Why just because it is a fantasy game do we need naked women? ... There certainly is a place for such images but it is not on a game partially marketed to children.

Well this is how this genre has been marketed to adults AND children for almost 100 years...

Just one more thing to add. I use a fair few models in my work. (guys and girls. In fact, I have a whole stage combat troupe who pose for me, and most are gamers.) Some of which who have either provided the outfits, or had them made, and wear them around later. One girl in particular I did a recent picture of wanted to know why I put so much clothing on her (it wasn't a lot). She evidently likes the way she looks and likes to show it off more. The girls I know, who pose for me, are strong and intelligent women who are rather proud of how they look, and one or two them could quite possibly beat me in a sword fight. And I'm no slouch when it comes to swordsmanship.

As for the symbols and such, people will see what is most relevant to them. That's the endlessly fascinating power of symbols across cultures.