Troll Lord Games

Other than the penalties associated with Charging or Fleeing melee, does anyone know of any penalties that apply to a character that is jogging or running in combat?

Rhino wrote:Other than the penalties associated with Charging or Fleeing melee, does anyone know of any penalties that apply to a character that is jogging or running in combat?

While trying to do what?

Doh!!!

I meant to ask about a penalty to armor class while jogging or running in combat, either as a full move or part of a half move/attack.

Rhino wrote:Doh!!!

I meant to ask about a penalty to armor class while jogging or running in combat, either as a full move or part of a half move/attack.

None that I'm aware of.

Arduin wrote:

Rhino wrote:Doh!!!

I meant to ask about a penalty to armor class while jogging or running in combat, either as a full move or part of a half move/attack.

None that I'm aware of.

Rhino, jogging or running and making an attack is considered a charge.

Player's Handbook, page 130 wrote:When charging, a character precedes a melee attack by jogging or running, with the intent of using the gained leverage and momentum to inflict greater damage on a defender. [...] When charging, a character is considered to be jogging or running.

So, if you attack after a jog (x2 speed) or run (x4 speed), then the penalties for charging would apply (-4 penalty to AC).

If there is no attack involved then, by the book, there are no penalties. I might house rule that if you jog w/o an attack, you get -1 to your AC. If you run w/o an attack, you suffer a -2 penalty. Personally, I feel that there should be some drawback for moving more than your movement in a turn.

Lord Dynel wrote: Rhino, jogging or running and making an attack is considered a charge.

Only if you move your full movement and you move in a straight line. I was considering that he was asking about a non-charging moment then, attack ...

Arduin wrote:

Lord Dynel wrote: Rhino, jogging or running and making an attack is considered a charge.

Only if you move your full movement and you move in a straight line. I was considering that he was asking about a non-charging moment then, attack ...

That is true. But there are no other conditions where you can move more than 1/2 you movement, then attack. The only non-charging moment then attack would be a "normal" attack - moving 1/2 then attacking.

Upon closer inspection of page 130, it states that you can only jog (x2 movement) with a charge. So running is all well and good, but no attack can be used in conjunction with a run.

Rhino, when in doubt remember this: there are only two normal conditions in which you can move and attack - you can move 1/2 your movement rate and attack, or you can charge (jogging, moving x2 your movement) then attack (with the -4 penalty).

Lord Dynel wrote: That is true. But there are no other conditions where you can move more than 1/2 you movement, then attack. The only non-charging moment then attack would be a "normal" attack - moving 1/2 then attacking.

Correct. As he didn't state that he wanted to move any particular distance I gave the non-charge answer.

Lord Dynel wrote:Upon closer inspection of page 130, it states that you can only jog (x2 movement) with a charge. So running is all well and good, but no attack can be used in conjunction with a run.

Hmm. Pg. 130 "When charging, a character precedes a melee attack by jogging or running, ... When charging, a character is considered to be jogging or running."

I don't see under the Charging section where it says "only jog" while charging...

Arduin wrote:

Lord Dynel wrote:Upon closer inspection of page 130, it states that you can only jog (x2 movement) with a charge. So running is all well and good, but no attack can be used in conjunction with a run.

Hmm. Pg. 130 "When charging, a character precedes a melee attack by jogging or running, ... When charging, a character is considered to be jogging or running."

I don't see under the Charging section where it says "only jog" while charging...

Under charging, second paragraph:

The total distance moved while charging cannot exceed the character's jogging movement rate.

It's confusing, for sure, but it even gives an example to verify that statement (with Una and the orc).

Lord Dynel wrote:

The total distance moved while charging cannot exceed the character's jogging movement rate.

That is distance not, speed. Thus, one can run during a charge attack. Yes, worded weird.

Arduin wrote:

Lord Dynel wrote:

The total distance moved while charging cannot exceed the character's jogging movement rate.

That is distance not, speed. Thus, one can run during a charge attack. Yes, worded weird.

I'm confused. It's talking about the total distance in a round one can move. Distance/round is a speed!

What would be the point of running be then? Using the example in the book, if Una is 40' away from the orc, why would she run? There would be no point, would there? Her base is 30', and she can jog up to 60'/round. It specficially says that she can charge the orc as long as he is no further than 60'.

I guess you can, technically, run with a charge, but since the distance you can charge is capped by your jogging rate, then I don't see there ever being a point to run. It won't get you there quicker, and there are no benefits to it.

Perhaps a 5th printing clarification is in order along with spell resistance?

Lord Dynel wrote:
I guess you can, technically, run with a charge, but since the distance you can charge is capped by your jogging rate, then I don't see there ever being a point to run. It won't get you there quicker, and there are no benefits to it.

I guess it could mean something if there were others in combat moving at various speeds. But yes, per the rules you can run or jog. That part makes sense as charging would benefit from running upon impact with weapon. The distance thing is simple. You use the characters jog distance moved/round to figure. That's the only reason it mentions jogging in there.

Arduin wrote:

Lord Dynel wrote:
I guess you can, technically, run with a charge, but since the distance you can charge is capped by your jogging rate, then I don't see there ever being a point to run. It won't get you there quicker, and there are no benefits to it.

I guess it could mean something if there were others in combat moving at various speeds. But yes, per the rules you can run or jog. That part makes sense as charging would benefit from running upon impact with weapon. The distance thing is simple. You use the characters jog distance moved/round to figure. That's the only reason it mentions jogging in there.

I suppose. The thing is, everyone can move x2 their movement (a jog) in a round. So if you're within that limit then you should be able to make a charge attack. A human will be able to charge at a max of 60', whereas a dwarf will only be able to charge at a range of 40'. I've understood that from the beginning, and that isn't where the confusion comes from. I guess I would challenge someone to find a reason why you would run for a charge instead of jog? Whether or not you can is really besides the point. Why is the question.

I believe a "run" is movement x 5.

That would imply the purpose of a run is to cover greater distances in a shorter period.

For example:

Dubo the dwarf is bearing down on two foul goblins, one armed with a crude short bow at 80 feet and another with a makeshift mace at 40. Dubo knows he needs to cover ground quickly and opts to run and charge the bow goblin. He could have waltzed up to the mace-wielding one but that would leave him exposed to the other, and, if he had charged it, would have been severely penalized on AC. If he charges the bow goblin, he stays out of melee range with the other, and he makes the bow useless. Unfortunately, if the bow is primed, it still gets first shot...

At least, that's how I roll with it, books and rules be tossed aside.

I try to simulate what would happen or exist in real life. And in real life, jogging is its own punishment, I suppose that anyone who jogs would be forced to carry an iPod and wear ear buds.

It seems you can move up to one-half your move and attack without declaring a charge. There does not appear to be any requirement that you declare a charge if you jog or run one half your move and attack. Just wondering.