Fire! Acid! Holy Water! (where?)

[Chainsaw Mage]

There's some kind of weird mental block preventing me from finding details on fire, acid, and holy water in my PHB, M&T, and CKG. Can anyone point me to the rules for use of these three substances? Basically it's damage I'm looking for, plus any other stats/game rules given.

Fire, acid, holy water--the weapons of good hirelings since 1974.

[Arduin]

Holy Water damage, pg. 44 CKG

[kreider204]

CKG has something about boiling oil on page 181 and flaming oil cask catapult ammo on 182.

[Chainsaw Mage]

CKG has something about boiling oil on page 181 and flaming oil cask catapult ammo on 182.

What about good old fashioned fire damage? Like from a flaming torch? Is that not in the books anywhere?

[alcyone]

Liquid combat damage is listed on the portrait CK screen. Silly you for reading books!

Type: Diameter/Damage/Save
Acid: 5'/1d12/dex half
Holy or Unholy Water: 2'/1d8/no save
Burning oil: 10'/1d8/dex half

EDIT: I checked the Landscape screens, and it's in there too.

[kreider204]

Liquid combat damage is listed on the portrait CK screen. Silly you for reading books!

Type: Diameter/Damage/Save
Acid: 5'/1d12/dex half
Holy or Unholy Water: 2'/1d8/no save
Burning oil: 10'/1d8/dex half

EDIT: I checked the Landscape screens, and it's in there too.

Is this info in the PHB or CKG anywhere?

[Arduin]

CKG has something about boiling oil on page 181 and flaming oil cask catapult ammo on 182.

What about good old fashioned fire damage? Like from a flaming torch? Is that not in the books anywhere?

Touching someone with a torch will just cause a burn where you touch them. Like real life. If you manage to set their clothes on fire you can do some real damage. Wool is difficult to set on fire and self extinguishes. The other common medieval material linen (from flax) is pretty flammable especially if the garment is loose and not close to the body. If you consider a person has 1-6 hp, setting his clothes on fire should do ~1-6 points of damage. That is if it isn't extinguished quickly. Otherwise, a torch will not do considerable damage...

I side checked this with my wife who has a degree in textiles from a university that helped design the space suits for NASA's Apollo pgm...

[Chainsaw Mage]

Liquid combat damage is listed on the portrait CK screen. Silly you for reading books!

Type: Diameter/Damage/Save
Acid: 5'/1d12/dex half
Holy or Unholy Water: 2'/1d8/no save
Burning oil: 10'/1d8/dex half

EDIT: I checked the Landscape screens, and it's in there too.

Is this info in the PHB or CKG anywhere?

If it is, I can't find it anywhere. Looked again last night pretty thoroughly. It seems like a curious oversight. If I had my AD&D books handy (they're in storage unfortunately) I'd look it up there; I vividly remember the AD&D DMG having entries on "acid", "fire" (as in fire damage) and holy water. C&C only seems to have holy water info in the books. But at least the info from the CK screen is canonical!

[kreider204]

Ya, that's weird. I'd prefer not to have to order accessories to get core rules ... Ah, well.

[Arduin]

I found this on pg. 60 CKG "it functions as flaming oil, dealing
1d6+1 damage for 1d6+3 rounds if untreated."

[Chainsaw Mage]

Ya, that's weird. I'd prefer not to have to order accessories to get core rules ... Ah, well.

I found my AD&D 2e books! Hurrah! Just to give another perspective, here's what the DMG says:

Substance / Area of Effect / Damage (direct hit) / Damage (splash)

Acid / 1' diameter / 2d4 / 1

Holy Water / 1' diameter / 1d6+1 / 2

Burning oil / 3' diameter / 2d6 first round, 1d6 second round / 1d3

So between this info and the stuff from the CK screen, there's enough to mix and match. Personally I like the 1d12 damage for acid better than 2d4; makes acid seem more lethal. I also like the AD&D idea of fire damage lasting for two rounds, but diminishing a bit the second round as the victim desperately trashes around putting out the fire

[Chainsaw Mage]

I found this on pg. 60 CKG "it functions as flaming oil, dealing
1d6+1 damage for 1d6+3 rounds if untreated."

Nice find--that reference escaped me. Cool. I **really** like that idea of 4-9 rounds of fire damage, heh heh.

EDIT: In case anyone's curious, it's in the description of a Jar of Pitch. Cool.

[Chainsaw Mage]

Look what else I found:

"Vial, Acid. There are many types of acid, and some are far stronger than others, and others simply do not function against particular material. The type represented here is a metal-eating acid, which is normally stored in a clay or glass vial, and is intended to be used by those in the smith crafts to etch and engrave, espceially for those working in copper. However, nefarious people, like thieves, also use acid when their skills otherwise fail, though the process is dreadfully slow. Exact details are subject to Castle Keeper's approval, but the better the result, the more expensive the purchase." (CKG 61)

Hmmm. Doesn't really tell us much, at that.

[Arduin]

Look what else I found:

"Vial, Acid. There are many types of acid, and some are far stronger than others, and others simply do not function against particular material. The type represented here is a metal-eating acid, which is normally stored in a clay or glass vial, and is intended to be used by those in the smith crafts to etch and engrave, espceially for those working in copper. However, nefarious people, like thieves, also use acid when their skills otherwise fail, though the process is dreadfully slow. Exact details are subject to Castle Keeper's approval, but the better the result, the more expensive the purchase." (CKG 61)

Hmmm. Doesn't really tell us much, at that.

Yes, having acid that is strong enough to kill a person by splashing is going to be SO dangerous to carry that it wouldn't be worth the trouble...

[kreider204]

M&T says that flaming swords do an extra 1d6 fire damage when striking a foe (2d6 is the foe is cold-based). That might be a good baseline for striking someone with a torch or the like as well.

[kreider204]

Yes, having acid that is strong enough to kill a person by splashing is going to be SO dangerous to carry that it wouldn't be worth the trouble...

"Let's see, you fall into the pit. You only take 2 points of falling damage, but that vial of highly corrosive acid you had in your pouch busted open ... "

[Arduin]

Yes, having acid that is strong enough to kill a person by splashing is going to be SO dangerous to carry that it wouldn't be worth the trouble...

"Let's see, you fall into the pit. You only take 2 points of falling damage, but that vial of highly corrosive acid you had in your pouch busted open ... "

OR, the Orc swings his mace, luckily your backpack absorbs the blow. Unluckily...

[serleran]

As the person who wrote the expanded equipment section for the CKG, I can say this was my intent:

1) provide more basic equipment, the stuff that I found 'lacking' from the PHB and which I find myself, in many campaigns, usually wanting to have available in some fashion (this is not the case for every item, but the more mundane stuff, absolutely.)

2) not handhold the Castle Keeper with specific rules for this and that and everything else, which was part of my "rules" when asked to write it

However, I would have a torch inflict 1d6 damage, and then burn again for 1d3 rounds, each round inflicting 1 damage. Oil would do 1d6 damage, burn for 1d3+1 rounds, and inflict 1d3 damage each round. Pitch would do 1d6+1, and burn for 1d3+1, dealing 1d3+1 each round. Holy water would deal 2d4, and only against fiends and undead. Acid would deal 1d8 (the more potent, the higher the damage, and the more expensive and less 'friendly to carry.') The larger the quantity, the more it does, and to a larger area.

You may disagree with the numbers, and if that is the case, feel free to make them whatever you'd like.

[Lord Dynel]

As the person who wrote the expanded equipment section for the CKG, I can say this was my intent:

1) provide more basic equipment, the stuff that I found 'lacking' from the PHB and which I find myself, in many campaigns, usually wanting to have available in some fashion (this is not the case for every item, but the more mundane stuff, absolutely.)

2) not handhold the Castle Keeper with specific rules for this and that and everything else, which was part of my "rules" when asked to write it

However, I would have a torch inflict 1d6 damage, and then burn again for 1d3 rounds, each round inflicting 1 damage. Oil would do 1d6 damage, burn for 1d3+1 rounds, and inflict 1d3 damage each round. Pitch would do 1d6+1, and burn for 1d3+1, dealing 1d3+1 each round. Holy water would deal 2d4, and only against fiends and undead. Acid would deal 1d8 (the more potent, the higher the damage, and the more expensive and less 'friendly to carry.') The larger the quantity, the more it does, and to a larger area.

You may disagree with the numbers, and if that is the case, feel free to make them whatever you'd like.

Consider this borrowed, boss.

[Chainsaw Mage]

Look what else I found:

"Vial, Acid. There are many types of acid, and some are far stronger than others, and others simply do not function against particular material. The type represented here is a metal-eating acid, which is normally stored in a clay or glass vial, and is intended to be used by those in the smith crafts to etch and engrave, espceially for those working in copper. However, nefarious people, like thieves, also use acid when their skills otherwise fail, though the process is dreadfully slow. Exact details are subject to Castle Keeper's approval, but the better the result, the more expensive the purchase." (CKG 61)

Hmmm. Doesn't really tell us much, at that.

Yes, having acid that is strong enough to kill a person by splashing is going to be SO dangerous to carry that it wouldn't be worth the trouble...

Dude, don't be so simulationist! Carrying deadly acid to throw on trolls is a staple of D&D adventuring!

[Arduin]

Dude, don't be so simulationist! Carrying deadly acid to throw on trolls is a staple of D&D adventuring!

Hardly. No more simulationist than saying that pint of oil your carrying does 1D6 if you poured it onto yourself and light it. It is inescapable.