Troll Lord Games

I'm going to divide this up into two sections. The first will be which optional rules you are using from the CKG, the second will be house rules of your own design. Our game hasn't been going too long and I haven't found much need to add/tweak stuff but here is my list:

From the CKG
- +6 to attributes rather than 12/18
- Added combat maneuvers
- Ranged combat rate of fire (shoot more arrows at negative BtH) and added damage per bow type (harder to pull bows require higher strength scores and add damage).

My own
- Nat 20 is crit with dmg x2 (no confirmation) and nat 1 is dropped weapon.
- Starvation and dehydration (got this from somebody over on dragonsfoot)
After 24 hours without water make a constitution save each day or lose 1 hp.
After 48 hours without food make a constitution save each day or lose 1 hp.
* +1 CL for each day without food or water, cumulative (eg CL 5 after 5 days)

I'm tooling with adding some sort of NWP system, maybe just digging the 2e one straight out of the book. I've also thought about using advantages but I'm not sure yet.

Most of my rules are either on the spot, and never occur again, or require creating something specific like a new race, class, item, spell, or whatever. They rarely get used in a second campaign, so I tend to not really consider them as anything but "special." One rule I do tend to use most often is I do not start characters with maximum HPs and do not allow attribute re-rolls or "swapping."

Ah, so nothing out of the CKG?

From the CKG:
- Advantages
- Critical and Fumble Option 5
- Most of the Combat Maneuvers from pg. 256 (all but Parry, really, since it conflics with Evade and Dodge from the PHB)

House Rules:
- Attribute generation: 3d6, 12 times, pick best 6. If you can't find 6 you like, reroll the set, but only roll 10. You can reroll the sets, down to 6 rolls, but at that point all 6 must be kept.
- Ranger prime is Wisdom*
- Initiative: Declare actions before combat, then roll initiative for the round (initiative is rolled each round)
- No illusionist healing: spells to replace healing-type spells
- Surprise rules from 2e AD&D

That's pretty much it for me. There are a few I'm considering, but I need to test them. These are the set* ones at the moment.



* - Wisdom prime for Rangers is kind of in flux - I keep changing my mind on it. Had a "two-prime" system where PCs sould pick one of two primes for their class, which I might revisit. The system looked like this (note spellcasters do not get a choice of two primes - that was intentional):

Fighter – Str or Con
Ranger – Wis or Dex
Rogue – Int or Dex
Assassin – Dex or Wis
Barbarian – Str or Con
Monk – Con or Wis
Wizard – Int
Illusionist – Int
Cleric – Wis
Druid – Wis
Knight – Str or Cha
Paladin – Wis or Cha
Bard – Int or Cha

From the CKG -
Table 1.3 Attribute Modifiers M2 (still working on scores >20)
Most of the spell behavior explanations.
Height/Weight tables
Illusion Magic (how it works)


House Rules:
Continual Flame costs 5gp in materials.
Spell casters casting spells with (S) component lose Dex to AC while casting.
Making combat spell touch attacks vs. armed opponents is dangerous for the spell caster.
Pretty much on the spot decisions.

Haven't really read my CKG in enough depth or detail to use it for house rules yet. I intend to, though.

For now, my house rules are:

1. Critical hit on natural 20; damage x2
2. Fumble on natural 1; weapon dropped (one round to recover weapon safely)
3. No subdual damage; all damage is actual damage.

I have others, but don't have my notes handy.

Ozreth wrote:Ah, so nothing out of the CKG?

Aside from some of the equipment (and a little bit on NPCs, sections that I authored, or helped write), which were in my games before they were in the CKG.... no. I have barely even opened the book.

I like the double damage idea. Previously I'd used max damage. Do you let monsters have critical hits as well because if a dragon rolls a 20 on a bite... I was thinking of giving the attacker an extra attack and the opponent a free attack if a 1 is rolled.

Haha, haven't encountered any dragons yet, but this is how we did 2e and 3e and it was fine in both. As long as the players know both sides get the double damage it's all good because they know what they're getting themselves into.

I like the idea of the opponent gettin an attack if a 1 is rolled. Sort of liken Attack of Opportunity.

Speaking of AoO. Does anybody use those? After playing 3e AoO just made sense to me. I play 2e & C&C pretty miniature light, if at all so positioning isn't too big of a deal but it's logical that if somebody runs away from an opponent or states that they are running around or near them that the opponent should get a swing.

Well, for my face to face game, it's been ongoing since 2004 using the C&C Box rules with a few additions from the PH . . but no CKG rules, since I don't like to add/change/delete rules once a game has started.

For my online game, I allow skills from the CKG.

Not many house rules for my ftf game . . except crits. Damage X2 on nat 20s, monsters get damage X 1/2.

But, good point about dragons. The group in only lvl 3/4, so they have only faced the typical greedy, stupid and unorganized monsters. I suppose intelligent or very powerful monsters should get the same crit bonuses!

Ozreth wrote:Speaking of AoO. Does anybody use those? After playing 3e AoO just made sense to me. I play 2e & C&C pretty miniature light, if at all so positioning isn't too big of a deal but it's logical that if somebody runs away from an opponent or states that they are running around or near them that the opponent should get a swing.

I don't use them. Good riddance, I say!

Seriously, no I don't use them and I'm perfectly happy with them not being a part of the game. I think the declaration of action before initiative takes care of some of those issues. It really makes the players think about their actions in the round - what to do if they beat the foes initiative and what to do if they don't. It really makes for some interesting combats. And I'm so glad I don't hear "is [this action or that action] going to provoke an attack of opportunity?" anymore.

Not that it matters....but are declaration of actions RAW in C&C? I thought it was the same as 3e: Choose your action in initiative order on your turn.

Declarations are in the play examples on 139 and 140. On page 53 it is suggested that some CKs will require a declaration for spells ("Most Castle Keepers make you announce at the beginning of the round whether you are going to cast a spell. If so, and you roll a low initiative roll, then you have a chance of being struck before the spell goes off...") This contradicts page 52: ("A character who wishes to cast a spell announces his intention to the Castle Keeper during the character’s initiative turn...")

So, it's in there. I am not sure I'd call it RAW.

Ozreth wrote:Not that it matters....but are declaration of actions RAW in C&C? I thought it was the same as 3e: Choose your action in initiative order on your turn.

They are mentioned as play examples but it is not a "rule" per se. BUT, it has been part of D&D for at least 35 years. (I think original DMG has it).

Actually, I was surprised that GM's weren't using this vital GM'ing tool.

Arduin wrote:

Ozreth wrote:\BUT, it has been part of D&D for at least 35 years. (I think original DMG has it).

I'm aware of this but towards the end of 2e and definitely in 3e it shifted to choosing your action on your initiative turn, and I thought this was one of the things TLG ported over from 3e. I do prefer declarations first though.

Ozreth wrote: I'm aware of this but towards the end of 2e and definitely in 3e it shifted to choosing your action on your initiative turn, and I thought this was one of the things TLG ported over from 3e. I do prefer declarations first though.

Yah, I have always used them. Even in 3e. Never saw a change when people switched to to 2e.

Declared actions are not a specific rule in the C&C PHB, but some actions in the CKG must be declared before the initiative is rolled. I think this is cool because it adds a neat little leayer of depth to the fightin'. Sure, you can wait until your PCs initiative comes up in the order to declare your action, but you wouldn't be able to do some of those cool combat maneuvers from the CKG either.

~O

Omote wrote:Sure, you can wait until your PCs initiative comes up in the order to declare your action, but you wouldn't be able to do some of those cool combat maneuvers from the CKG either.

Elaborate plz! : )

I know I'm not Omote, but I'll elaborate a little on my end...

For one, Ozerth, it can get rid of certain Attacks of Opportunity (as I mentioned earlier) especially involving spellcasters. As Aergraith mentioned, on page 53, they do talk about declaring actions. Since a spellcaster starts casting at the beginning of the round, and cannot move, he's subject to an attack. If I, as CK, declare that one of the foes is going to attack the caster, and hits, before it is the casters action then the spell is ruined. It can also replicate an "escape" a PC can make against a foe. If I decide I want the orc to take a swing at the PC, but the player goes first and moves, the orc left is swinging in the air.

I wouldn't dare speak for the Great Omote, but if you have the CKG, check page 256, under "Combat Maneuvers." I would assume he was referring to the statement at the end of the paragraph, stating, "Generally, the combatant must announce these maneuvers before the round begins." Technically, you could finagle them into the "roll initiative, wait till your turn then say what you want to do," but I, personally, think some of them work better with the declare method.

For example, a PC is hurting, but trying to kill the orc. Another orc moves over to try to finish off the PC. The PC, on his action, then states, "I'm going to Parry!" Actions in the round could have possibly caused him to change his action. Now, since he wasn't outnumbered at first - but is now - he exercises his option to Parry. Now, he could still announce that before the round starts but this goes back to the tactics/depth that I, and Omote, mentioned this method brings. Even something like the Receiving Charge maneuver is better tactically (in my opinion, at least) if used with the "declare first" method - the PC is gambling on the mounted goblin warg rider to charge him this round and decides to ready himself. Using it in the "roll first" method, if the goblin goes first, and hits, then the PC won't have time to ready. If the goblin misses, then it doesn’t matter and the chance of tactics is lost. Note that, with the Receiving Charge maneuver, nowhere does it mention "if the charger hits," so the person receiving the charge will get a hit much like - at least in my interpretation - attacking with a longer weapon.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.

Ozreth wrote:

Omote wrote:Sure, you can wait until your PCs initiative comes up in the order to declare your action, but you wouldn't be able to do some of those cool combat maneuvers from the CKG either.

Elaborate plz! : )

Lord Dynel and I are cut from the same loaf of bread in many of these situations. I haven't mastered the ability to elaborate on my thoughts as well as he does though.

That being said, two of the combat maneuvers in the CLG specifically state that to perform them, your PC must declare (or announce) the fact that they are going to use them before initiative is rolled. This comes from the Offensive Focus and Parry combat maneuvers. These are the only times you will find hard written rules saying you must do so. If your CK runs games where there is a declaration of actions round, so be it. If he doesn't do so, then the C&C rules on just declaring your action when your PCs initiative order comes up doesn't really change. Though, the only actions I make PCs declare are these two.

~O

From the CKG:

Advantages
Racial weapons
Spell Slots
The Wizard's Wand and Cleric's Holy Symbol required spellcasting focus
The Healing Power of the Illusionist To bring greater continuity to the table and to better express the illusionist’s power as a manipulator of time and space in regard to his ability to heal, the illusionist, not the target, makes an attribute check to succeed at casting any curing spells. When an illusionist attempts to heal, the recipient, either unconscious or conscious, receives the magic only if the illusionist successfully makes his attribute check. In this case, the CL equals the level of the target.

Own House Rules:

- Ability Scores: Create 3 sets of stats rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest roll. The player picks the best of the three, but has to assign them in order.

- Maximum starting HP

- Secondary Skills from AD&D (this gives a general idea of the PC's background and may grant a bonus to SIEGE checks as appropriate)

- Details from the character’s background may grant bonuses to SIEGE checks as well.

- If a player comes up with a convincing reason during the game, the CK may grant a bonus for a SIEGE check and/or allow the player to add the PC's level to the roll in a situation where one would normally not

- Races: Standard races and the races detailed in the Player’s Guide to the Wilderlands. Any feat-based or skill-based bonus will be ignored or applied as a secondary skill / background bonus. Please note: that the various "true" races (i.e., those ones that are not simply colorful versions of the Human race), are not considered Human (i.e., they get their racial bonuses, but not the extra primary attribute Humans get)

- Classes:
o Standard from the Players Handbook.
o Three versions of barbarians
1.) The version in the early printing of the Players Handbook ("Berserker")
2.) The version in the 4th printing of the Players Handbook ("Savage")
3.) The version in the Barbarians of the Wilderlands ("Wilderlands Barbarian")

- Restrictions:
o No evil alignments
o No custom magic items

- Character Binder: link

- Critical Hits/Fumbles: Paizo's Critical Hit and Critical Fumble Decks

- Critical Success/Critical Failure for SIEGE checks
If you roll a 20 on a SIEGE roll, good things happen. Likewise, if you roll a 1, bad things happen.

- Gems, Baubles, and Goods
When gems, jewelry, statues, and the like are acquired by the party, the CK will immediately relate the monetary value for these items. This simply makes for easier book-keeping.

- Deities
Gods from any pantheon can be worshiped, but players are encouraged to review the gods described in the Player’s Guide to the Wilderlands.

- On Being Turned to Stone (compliments of Jonathan Drain)
A character turned to stone can attempt to strike a heroic pose in order to make a better looking statue. If sold, his statue fetches 100 gp times the result of a Charisma check.

- Shields and Dual Weapon Wielding
If a PC fights with two weapons, the standard attack penalties apply if he wishes to attack with both weapons during the round. Otherwise, the second weapon (which must be medium or smaller), grants an AC bonus.
Small weapon:
o +1 to AC but only for one attack per round (which will be the first attack unless otherwise specified by the player)
o no AC bonus versus ranged attacks
Medium weapon:
o +1 to AC for all attacks that round
o no AC bonus versus ranged attacks
Shields:
o +1 bonus to the AC bonus listed in the book
o AC bonus against both melee and ranged attacks

- Dice Rolls
Only dice rolled on the table count. If a die hits the floor, it will be re-rolled.
Cocked die rolls are re-rolled.

- XP Awards and XP Award Nominations
In addition to XP earned for monster slaying, treasure, story bonuses, etc., players may earn XP for good game play. “Good game play” can be anything that contributes to the game session overall. After each session, players should send the CK a message nominating anyone (including themselves) that did a great job at the session. Although players can provide their nominations publicly, an email or a private message via EpicWords is preferred. Once the CK receives the nominations, he will evaluate them, consider the session himself, and issue out XP Awards accordingly.

Players are encouraged to nominate themselves because often something subtle, but important, goes overlooked by the group or CK.

Examples of good game play:
- kicked ass in combat in a particular fashion
- did something really cool in combat, even if it wasn’t overly effective
- two words: Epic Fail
- role-played very well
- busted up the group in laughter
- pleased the CK in some inane manner
- brought pie
- got the CK drunk

- Initiative
Initiative will be resolved by the book with the following changes/clarifications:
• We will use a d12 instead of a d10
• Ties with opponents go to the player
• Ties between players are resolved by the players (roll off, discussion, etc.)

- Background Story (B.S.) Bonus

Before a SIEGE check, if a player convincingly relates some story or experience from his character’s past that applies to the current situation, the CK may grant a bonus to the SIEGE check roll. For example, if the player explains that long ago his dad would take him out to pick wild blueberries, he may receive a +2 bonus to his foraging for blueberries role (see here for more info: link).

The player must then write this information down on his character sheet and it becomes a permanent part of the character’s story.

- Detect Chaos, Evil,Good, or Law
• The detect chaos, evil, good, or law spell does not function in regard to sentient beings. What is evil to one may be not be evil to another. However, the spell does function for insentient entities, such as magic weapons or haunted locations, because such effects are typically a function of magic or supernatural power.
• Higher-level spells and spell-like abilities with similar capabilities function normally.
• This spell may also detect neutrality (see below).

- Detect Neutrality
• This spell has a very limited effect. As such, it will be combined with detect chaos, evil, good, or law.
• Druids and Cleric both have access to detect chaos, evil, good, law, or neutrality as a 0 level spell.

- Surprise Roll
The CK will roll as normal. For the players, each player will roll a make a wisdom or dexterity check. The highest roll will be used for the entire group.

Omote wrote:Lord Dynel and I are cut from the same loaf of bread in many of these situations. I haven't mastered the ability to elaborate on my thoughts as well as he does though.

You do me such a kind honor, good sir!

Frost wrote: The Healing Power of the Illusionist To bring greater continuity to the table and to better express the illusionist’s power as a manipulator of time and space in regard to his ability to heal, the illusionist, not the target, makes an attribute check to succeed at casting any curing spells. When an illusionist attempts to heal, the recipient, either unconscious or conscious, receives the magic only if the illusionist successfully makes his attribute check. In this case, the CL equals the level of the target.

I plan on using this one if any of the players decide to play one.

Keep in mind that I just started my first face-to-face C&C campaign for my daughter and her boyfriend after a DMing hiatus of almost 12 years.

From CKG:
Spell Slots
Advantages
Fate Points

From PHB:
Class and a Half

House Rules:
4d6 drop lowest for each attribute
Add Wisdom or Dexterity Bonus to Initiative (Whichever is greater)
Max HP at 1st level
NWP from AD&D2e

Frost Wrote:
A character turned to stone can attempt to strike a heroic pose in order to make a better looking statue. If sold, his statue fetches 100 gp times the result of a Charisma check.

Consider this one stolen for my campaign

OT but didn't want to start a whole new thread.

Is there a single place to read/list CKG errata? I searched but the engine blew up with errors.

Desrimal wrote:Frost Wrote:
A character turned to stone can attempt to strike a heroic pose in order to make a better looking statue. If sold, his statue fetches 100 gp times the result of a Charisma check.

Consider this one stolen for my campaign

Ha, enjoy! Like I said, I stole it from someone else myself!

to say the truth the list of what I use of the ckg will be too long, because there is a lot of good stuff in there.
with that being said, there are a lot of rules from the ckg that I use, but I must re-elaborate them: sometimes I find these rules a bit too heavy for me. so I cut something here and there and I have a simple rule.
e.g. the price for material components: I take in consideration, like someone else here suggest, only components that are more expensive than 5 gp otherwise a small fee for the magician is the only things he need to replace his magic components pouch at the end of an adventure.
near the wholeness of my house rules are rules from the ckg, rewritten to be a little easier.
this book it's important just for this: before I have read this, I considered my core books as the 10 commandments. after I have read this, I thought: Now I have understood, this rules are mine and I will do what I want with them.
and that's what I costantly do

I suppose one house rule I use is this:

If you open a C&C book at the game, I deduct XP.

serleran wrote:I suppose one house rule I use is this:

If you open a C&C book at the game, I deduct XP.

You don't allow players to use the Players Handbook????