Troll Lord Games

As i understand the PHB everyone (or groups) rolls a d10 in every combat round. Isn't that quite cumbersome, what is the advantage of this? I always played initiative as a once at the start of a combat roll.

(I know everyone house rules, but i at least saw one thread where people argued to play btb, and i just want to learn what the advantages are to play by the book. I never played another D&D edition other than 3rd and Pathfinder. I'm curious what the thoughts are behind the raw.)

Incantatar wrote: and i just want to learn what the advantages are to play by the book. I never played another D&D edition other than 3rd and Pathfinder. I'm curious what the thoughts are behind the raw.)

Battles are uncertain and initiative can see-saw. Like in real life.

Is there a way to make this easy on the DM (Do i have to say CK? ) and the time it takes to resolve combat? One argument i made for the system switch was faster combat with C&C.

Incantatar wrote:Is there a way to make this easy on the DM (Do i have to say CK? ) and the time it takes to resolve combat? One argument i made for the system switch was faster combat with C&C.

I don't think so. (DM, GM, CK, are all good). Personally, I only do this (init each round) if there are constantly changing/challenging environmental conditions. IE: fighting on a swaying rope bridge. fighting on an icy field/cavern. Otherwise, I roll once and let it go for the duration of the fight.

Do away with Initiative, it made more sense in 1 min combat rounds, in 10 second rounds I just call everything simultaneous and with DM fiat as need to handle things like lost spells or great move on the pc's part no counter attack. Speeds everything up.

-Mike

Arduin said it well earlier - combat is supposed to be, at least in my opinion, a chaotic affair. Where, at one moment, the PCs can have the advantage, the tide can quickly change.

I know this might feel a little cumbersome, Incantatar, coming from a d20 background the rounds should still fly by. Since C&C lacks the "intricacies" (read: baggage) of 3.x/PF/d20 combat, I have players declare their actions before initiative is rolled for the round. Without the extra stuff of d20, this adds a layer of tactics and strategy to combat without bogging it down too much. It's still way faster than 3.x/PF combat, by far. I'm very much against adding that baggage back in, but I wouldn't think a "once at the start of combat" initiative roll would be too bad and work okay. That's how I started, in truth, until my players wanted to add attacks of opportunity back in and threatened squares and certain other combat aspects (holding actions, delaying, etc) and I finally had enough. I scrapped it all and went to a declare-then-roll method and haven't looked back.

Leave behind your experience with 3e and try to play rolling initiative every round: it's not heavy and it's more funny. Combat must be fast and chaotic: now you have the advantage of being the first in the round, then you shall be worry of being in the last position.

Compaired to Pathfinder/3.5 even with changing initiative, the combat rounds are stil much faster. I like the RAW.

I LOVE the fact that in C&C initiative is rolled every round. Compared to other modern fantasy RPGs, there isn't much inherent tactics. That's OK, but with rolling initiative every round, the initiative becomes really important. If your PC is about to die, you certainly don't want to roll low. This effects your tactics if you play in a way where you don't declare actions in the beginning of the round. With only rolling initiative once, while easy, combat could (and does) become cyclical and repetative. I want some of my less combat-effective PCs to go first or last depending on the round. I don't want the uber-cool ultra-fighters going in the same slot every round. How boring!

I use a simple Talent/Advantage system in my games. I have a magic ring in my campaigns that directly add to initiative should the PCs come across one. Initiative should be important, and by rolling every round will create surprises, tension and fantastic encounters. I will NEVER go back to rolling just once for initiative.

~O

It's slightly more cumbersome, but I think it makes things more fun.

With Fantasy Ground or Maptool, it can all be done automatically, and there are some apps for phones and tablets, which while usually for 3.5, can let you force a reroll.

I have one of those GameMastery magnetic initiative pads, and I find it makes things pretty fast to track. At first, I actually moved the magnets around, but now I just leave them in place, and write and erase the initiative numbers next to them each round.

I have used playing cards for initiative. Just deal them out each round, and go in numerical/suit order. I kept the jokers in for a wild card (go first in the round). It is easy to do, and also easy to keep track of who goes when (no paperwork).

dunbruha wrote:I have used playing cards for initiative. Just deal them out each round, and go in numerical/suit order. I kept the jokers in for a wild card (go first in the round). It is easy to do, and also easy to keep track of who goes when (no paperwork).

Do you deal one to yourself and have all monsters go at once? Or do you have some way to associate a card with a monster?

I like having something written because I can take notes on ongoing effects and hit points.

Savage Worlds uses playing cards too. Ace to 2, ties settled by suit (reverse alphabetical order - spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs), Joker lets you go whenever you want in the round (including interrupting another character's action) and gives a bonus on rolls for the round (for Savage Worlds, it's a +2 for all trait (basically, siege) rolls and damage rolls), shuffle the deck whenever a Joker is drawn. Player controlled NPCs share initiative with PCs, and it's up to the GM how to deal for everyone else - you can divide or group them as you see fit. It's a great system, easy to keep track of, and lots of fun - especially when the Joker comes up!

Aergraith wrote:Do you deal one to yourself and have all monsters go at once?

yup

Aergraith wrote:I like having something written because I can take notes on ongoing effects and hit points.

I can still keep notes on hp and ongoing effects (although lots of times I just write the damage taken on the battlemat next to each monster).

kreider204 wrote:Savage Worlds uses playing cards too. Ace to 2, ties settled by suit (reverse alphabetical order - spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs), Joker lets you go whenever you want in the round (including interrupting another character's action) and gives a bonus on rolls for the round (for Savage Worlds, it's a +2 for all trait (basically, siege) rolls and damage rolls), shuffle the deck whenever a Joker is drawn. Player controlled NPCs share initiative with PCs, and it's up to the GM how to deal for everyone else - you can divide or group them as you see fit. It's a great system, easy to keep track of, and lots of fun - especially when the Joker comes up!

yeah, I borrowed this from SW. It's a great system, but it doesn't allow for any character-specific bonuses to initiative. That's the only down-side that I see.

dunbruha wrote: yeah, I borrowed this from SW. It's a great system, but it doesn't allow for any character-specific bonuses to initiative. That's the only down-side that I see.

Good point. SW does that with edges and hindrances, but I'm not sure how you'd do that with C&C. Maybe your DEX bonus adds to the number of cards you draw each round, and you get to use the highest card? (And a DEX penalty also adds to the number of cards you draw, and you have to use the lowest?)

I have a small whiteboard that I use to track initiative. To speed things up a bit I only have everyone re-roll every five combat rounds. This seems to work well for my group, and when I run at conventions.

I've played it both ways and there is little to no change in pace of combat. However, as a CK, I prefer the one inititive roll per combat. It's a lot easier for me.

R-

Stupid double post!

R-

I try to encourage actions that do not require an initiative roll, and always use declarative combat anyway, so most times, it is easy to ignore. However, when used, it is a d10 and that represents which of the 6 second segments your action happens... and yes, I use a 1 minute combat round.

I pretty much do initiative as written. I have thought about using the SW card system, but the d10 seems to work well also. Everybody leaves their rolls out in plain view, and I count them down. A friend of mine thinks that dex mods should be added in. Maybe so, but my group has never complained about it.

I think the OP was getting at "why" roll every round. IIRC, that was the original rule back in the 70s. (That said, I starting playing in the 90s so don't go by me, but that's what I recall from when 2nd ed first came out and my group was transitioning).

That said, I've never found it to slow things down significantly. I like Arduin's solution of a set initiative unless the battleground is unstable. Cool idea. The cards from SW is nifty too, but like the others, I say try RAW for a while so you can really see it in action before messing with it. (you can and should mess with it, though).

You could have everyone roll 10d10 at the start and cross them off as you go, if you're concerned that rolling each round slows things down.

I'll try it btb tomorrow. Let's see how it compares. I could use Maptool but i really think combat is better resolved with the player's dice.

If one really looks at "initiative" and what it means in battle after the opening blows (The power or ability to begin or to follow through energetically with a plan or task; enterprise and determination.), there are many reasons it can change. One side losing 20% of its forces. One side gaining forces. A powerful weapon effectively unleashed that hitherto wasn't used in the battle. So, a GM could assign initiative at times without rolling.

Just a thought.

I have been running games with both types of intitiative for many years. I really like rolling for intiiaitve each round. It is one of the most important tolls of each round, especially when dealing with spellcasters. It adds suspense and tension through uncertainty.

I like rolled and then static initiative. I prefer the seamless rotation benefit over the drama and suspense for common battles. However in important battles I like to change it up to the official round per round method.

Incantatar wrote:I'll try it btb tomorrow. Let's see how it compares. I could use Maptool but i really think combat is better resolved with the player's dice.

How did it go?

To your original question about the "advantages" of rolling each round - besides simulating the "chaos of battle," a specific game-change is that either side now has a chance to double-up (two consecutive turns without the other side taking an action.)

If you tried it, this might have been the thing you noticed the most. It can be a life-saver for the PCs, or an unfortunate, and deadly, turn of events. If, say, three monsters with two or more attacks each have surrounded a character, and they happen to double-up on him -- ouch. As a DM, of course, this is awesome. And the players occassionaly get to return the favor.

I just say, "Roll initiative," and then start counting down from 10 at the start of a new round. When a player's # comes up, he acts. Players win ties with monsters, and defer among each other for character ties. I only roll one die for all of the monsters. Easy-peasy.

A side-advantage is it helps keep a player from drifting away until his character's turn. Instead of knowing, "I go after Jan each time," he has to be ready to re-roll at the end of the round.

I usually have done reroll at the start of the new round-- I've noticed it actually doesn't add all that much time to combat (as opposed to 3.5/PF, where I actually look for reasons not to make people roll more) and makes my players think out their tactics a bit more-- because you never know if that monster will be getting the first shot next round.

At the con I GM'd, however, I had everyone roll once and used their number from round to round-- that was easier for me, simply because it was a group of eight players-- about three more than I'm used to-- whose styles I had to learn on the fly. But most often, I'd prefer to roll every combat round.