Troll Lord Games

For CKs - how much game time, or "in campaign" character time, do your players focus on hit point management?

What I mean by hp management is obsessing about healing, recovery, securing a means of healing or recovery, looking for every possible way to heal another hp, not wanting to move on without being fully healed, etc. This assumes you are using the healing rules as written.

It depends on the situations around them and what they need / want to be doing. For time-sensitive things, such as delivering pizza to the kidnapped princess at Lake Lava Dragon, they tend to ignore idle trivial things such as being subject to death-by-house-cat. If they have the moments, they'll take their time to heal up and I'll usually ask "OK, during this horrendously long time or months and years of kicking back, drinking whiskey from the jar-o, what else do you want to have done?" And we'll skip forward in time and return with magical hoverboards. In general though, they only care when the character is obviously close to death and the next attempt to put their shoes on might collapse a lung or something.

So, I'd say, as a percentage... its about 5%. I don't often implement 'temporal challenges' as I don't find them overly dramatic or fun -- they tend to be railroads for the PC choo-choo.

I find the players will risk random encounters to sleep up to maybe 3 days in a dungeon to refresh themselves between slow natural healing and the cleric spells recharging every day. If you have a druid, add onto that time to go out in the woods and gather goodberries.

In Temple of Elemental Evil I think we've rested up to a week to get recharged, but got really lucky on our rolls.

It's the flip side of dealing damage; it comes up a lot. I don't know what percentage I'd put on it, but in my games it's probably a good deal higher than 5%.

Now, you say "not wanting to move on without being fully healed." That is very common. What they want isn't usually what they get; I tend to be pretty cruel with wandering monsters and foes regrouping and healing themselves. Not to mention those funding the expedition; once I had the elves that hired the group waiting outside with bows ready to shoot any who left the area around the dungeon (though they also had limited healing they could offer), to make sure the job got done and to protect their investment. As the clock goes by food and light resources deplete as well.

I would say that I strick pretty close to the rule, therefore I am usually pretty clear and cise on how HPs are managed. We count hours, days, HP, and don't add anything else that is not provided in tle rules as written (other than magic items, etc).

~O

My players always retreat and rest up until they have full hit points. It was a problem. We are currently trying a houserule: divide HP by 2. The first half you lose are Fatigue Points that recover after a brief rest. The second half are Body Points that you recover as per RAW. The party has been much more inclined to keep adventuring even if they are a few Body Points down.

serleran wrote:It depends on the situations around them and what they need / want to be doing. For time-sensitive things, such as delivering pizza to the kidnapped princess at Lake Lava Dragon, they tend to ignore idle trivial things such as being subject to death-by-house-cat. If they have the moments, they'll take their time to heal up and I'll usually ask "OK, during this horrendously long time or months and years of kicking back, drinking whiskey from the jar-o, what else do you want to have done?" And we'll skip forward in time and return with magical hoverboards. In general though, they only care when the character is obviously close to death and the next attempt to put their shoes on might collapse a lung or something.

So, I'd say, as a percentage... its about 5%. I don't often implement 'temporal challenges' as I don't find them overly dramatic or fun -- they tend to be railroads for the PC choo-choo.

I think your reply just dealt me 1d8 of hypothetical damage.

Rhino wrote:My players always retreat and rest up until they have full hit points. It was a problem. We are currently trying a houserule: divide HP by 2. The first half you lose are Fatigue Points that recover after a brief rest. The second half are Body Points that you recover as per RAW. The party has been much more inclined to keep adventuring even if they are a few Body Points down.

That's more my situation. After a combat or two it turned into "Hit Point: the role-playing game." I've devised a whole new healing scheme, as well as a cool way to handle death, or potential death, and don't do negative hp. For healing, they get a 15 minute rest per 24/hrs, and the 8 hour rest per 24/hrs. The 15 minute heals 50% of all damage taken (no set #), and the 8 hour sleepy time rest heals 100%. It's great - game moves faster, magic healing is saved to use in combat, not out, and I can crank up the adversaries.

Ieuane wrote:

serleran wrote:It depends on the situations around them and what they need / want to be doing. For time-sensitive things, such as delivering pizza to the kidnapped princess at Lake Lava Dragon, they tend to ignore idle trivial things such as being subject to death-by-house-cat. If they have the moments, they'll take their time to heal up and I'll usually ask "OK, during this horrendously long time or months and years of kicking back, drinking whiskey from the jar-o, what else do you want to have done?" And we'll skip forward in time and return with magical hoverboards. In general though, they only care when the character is obviously close to death and the next attempt to put their shoes on might collapse a lung or something.

So, I'd say, as a percentage... its about 5%. I don't often implement 'temporal challenges' as I don't find them overly dramatic or fun -- they tend to be railroads for the PC choo-choo.

I think your reply just dealt me 1d8 of hypothetical damage.

That was pretty good.

I've got a house rule for healing, but this might change. I started with a bunch of house rules on the matter - I think that was because I was a 3.5 junkie and took a lot of stuff from there. So, I started with level in HP after rest. From there I went to 1d3 per night of rest, borrowed from the early Basic D&D rules. Right now, that's going to go one of two ways - either I'm going to go by the book (1/day, after 7 days add Con mod., etc) or stay with 1d3 and add Con modifier to it (per day).

One thing that 3.5 brought, heavily (as I don't want to assume that it didn't exist before), was the lack of running. So, early in C&C, my players had a hard time with retreating. Of course, my house rule didn't help much. When I changed it to 1d3, and when they started gaining the levels, they really noticed that only gaining 1-3 hit points after a night of sleep was kind of hurtful. It made them reevaluate some fights.

On the other hand, 1/hp per night can be rough. I know, this is my soft, coddling, side coming out. Before my game went on hold, it was pretty rough when someone would roll a 1 on their d3 for the night. I guess 3.x D&D seems to give the player's a leg up when it comes to getting HP back, and one of the perceived benefits of this was taking some of the healing burden off the party cleric. But at higher levels, when the party was in a vicious fight, they almost always have to rest an extra day - the cleric only has little to no healing memorized (since they can spontaneous cast) so once they convert the last few spells they have to heals, they rest. The next day the cleric gets up and heals them proper, and then it's a relaxing day of camp (and foraging, and identifying items, and divvying treasure, and other mundane tasks) while nature finishes up the process.

I thought about adding in spontaneous healing into C&C. I'm so glad I didn't. First, I feel like I need to break away from 3.5 D&D. It works, pretty well, in 3.5 but I feel it doesn't have a place in my C&C game. The tone of C&C, in making it feel like old AD&D, doesn't support level in hp/day or spontaneous healing. I like C&C for what it is, and I found that throwing in house rules was making it "feel" more like 3.5 instead of C&C. In my opinion, there's enough from 3.5 in the game as it is.

Sorry for the digression. My players began to feel the sting of low hit points once I changed my healing rules to 1d3/night of rest. They valued potions more and gave much more thought into swigging one. They didn't manage to find a wand of curing, but they planned on getting one commissioned as soon as they could get somewhere to find someone to make it for them. Clerics have returned to committing some of their daily slots to cure spells, which I agree with.

My players don't obsess over hit points, but they do get nervous when they get under 50% and look for a place where they can hide and rest in safety.

Well, they try to heal when they can. As far as "refusing to go on" unless fully healed; the environment often dictates when one moves or stays. Refusing to move in a highly populated dungeon has its own "rewards" .

Often, when they get "home" there are extended lay overs (like was true in medieval times) and natural healing of course takes place. On the road, very little time is taken up with this problem.

In my games spells seem to be a bigger issue then hit points for most of my players. Out of spells, time to rest.

-Mike

Ieuane wrote:For CKs - how much game time, or "in campaign" character time, do your players focus on hit point management?

I use the healing rules as written. 1 HP a day after a roughly 8 hour rest period (though I have some flexibily with that) or they find a magic way of healing - i.e. a cleric with cure light wounds or druid with good berries. No one is overly concerned abou it.

Ieuane wrote:That's more my situation. After a combat or two it turned into "Hit Point: the role-playing game." I've devised a whole new healing scheme, as well as a cool way to handle death, or potential death, and don't do negative hp. For healing, they get a 15 minute rest per 24/hrs, and the 8 hour rest per 24/hrs. The 15 minute heals 50% of all damage taken (no set #), and the 8 hour sleepy time rest heals 100%. It's great - game moves faster, magic healing is saved to use in combat, not out, and I can crank up the adversaries.

Ieuane, I'm curious if challenge with hit points in your game and this subsequent new healing scheme is a result of the style of play your familiar with. I can't help but think of healing surges from D&D 4e when I read your new healing scheme. It is is interesting to consider though, as D&D 4e, starts characters out with hit points that would be equiviant to a 5th level character in C&C, yet hit points still remained a problem for that version of the game, hence the healing surges.

TheMetal1 wrote: Ieuane, I'm curious if challenge with hit points in your game and this subsequent new healing scheme is a result of the style of play your familiar with. I can't help but think of healing surges from D&D 4e when I read your new healing scheme. It is is interesting to consider though, as D&D 4e, starts characters out with hit points that would be equiviant to a 5th level character in C&C, yet hit points still remained a problem for that version of the game, hence the healing surges.

Well, having non-magic using people being able to heal themselves that rapidly CERTAINLY would change the fantasy game world. Wars would be something to see with soldiers regenerating all all the place.

I know it sounds generous, but it works with the other house rules I use. I don't do negative hit points, for instance. At zero you're down and dying, with the option to roll on a "Zero hit point" table that provides an opportunity to survive and fight on with 1 hp, fight on after taking a "badge of honor," or die instantly with one last parting attack. Badge of honors include scars, long term wounds, attribute deductions, etc. Nasty stuff. I use crit tables, and a special crits on character table. Some of these are long lasting wounds, limps, etc. There's actually no more up, down, up, down without the threat of long term consequences besides just death. Some characters come out and after a while are good to go, others come out missing a finger, or worse.

My attitude is that hp are an abstraction necessary to moderate a fight, and should not absorb too much time outside of battle. Waiting around to heal hp during the campaign is like watching a bad commerical in the middle of a movie. They still have to have bandages, do first aid, eat, find good shelter and actually rest, or the healing amount is reduced.

I recall reading somewhere - in the CKG, perhaps? - a passage about how in the early days of the hobby, healing via potions, scrolls and wands tended to show up a lot more often than it seems to these days. That tends to jibe with my memory, though that may just be the Captain Morgan-fried synapses talking.

Some possible solutions - toss the cleric a wand of Cure Light Wounds. Stick a potion or two in the pouch of the orc who lead that warband. Include the occasional scroll. Allow the cleric to add their level to the roll on a Cure spell, up to the max possible (maybe by passing a SIEGE check, if you want to reign it in a bit). Have the players come across a hidden "sweetwater" spring that heals a character for 1d4 the first time they drink from it.

I also include a "Cure Moderate Wounds" spell at 2nd level for clerics (and somewhere in the druid list) to help bridge the gap.

Just some suggestions! I agree that three-day breaks to heal up, while reasonable from the player's point of view, do slow things down a lot. But you're the CK, so it's within your power to alter the situation to reduce the need for those breaks.

TheMetal1 wrote: Ieuane, I'm curious if challenge with hit points in your game and this subsequent new healing scheme is a result of the style of play your familiar with. I can't help but think of healing surges from D&D 4e when I read your new healing scheme. It is is interesting to consider though, as D&D 4e, starts characters out with hit points that would be equiviant to a 5th level character in C&C, yet hit points still remained a problem for that version of the game, hence the healing surges.

As any DM knows, the only real *problem* with any rpg is the players.

I'm familiar with all styles of play, btw, but I've always enjoyed modifying things to make them more exciting and fun for my players and me. CnC is great for that. I like to run aggressive heroic fantasy games, not replicate medieval realities, or make "healing up" a big deal. Quality table-time is of the essence these days.

Lord Dynel wrote: Sorry for the digression. My players began to feel the sting of low hit points once I changed my healing rules to 1d3/night of rest. They valued potions more and gave much more thought into swigging one. They didn't manage to find a wand of curing, but they planned on getting one commissioned as soon as they could get somewhere to find someone to make it for them. Clerics have returned to committing some of their daily slots to cure spells, which I agree with.

Sounds great, and supplying more healing magic items is one way to keep the campaign up to speed. It's not long, however, until that theme turns dark and starts to take over, as in, "Why aren't there any bloody cure light wound potions in this room, Mr. DM?", "No way am I using the last charge in my cure serious wounds wand on your stupid rogue!", "Oh yes, you better believe you're going to pray for every cure wounds spell you can pack into that skull of yours, Allen, or your holy symbol is going down the toilet!"

Maybe not.

In our game, we seldom rest long enough to recover any healing naturally outside of a town. What we end up doing is retreating to a pre-set camp site to rest long enough to get spells back for healing and then recharge the spells for our next foray into the delve. Sure, we get hit with random encounters on occasion, but it's less risky (so far) than being stuck in the middle of "enemy territory" looking like roadkill and fresh outta banages.

Go0gleplex wrote:In our game, we seldom rest long enough to recover any healing naturally outside of a town. What we end up doing is retreating to a pre-set camp site to rest long enough to get spells back for healing and then recharge the spells for our next foray into the delve. Sure, we get hit with random encounters on occasion, but it's less risky (so far) than being stuck in the middle of "enemy territory" looking like roadkill and fresh outta banages.

I'm pretty much like this with maybe a little more GM hand waving. (Most players I know don't want to have hp rest a equal part of the game.) I do, however, point out (especially a dungeon crawl) that there will be time and the same route to get back to where they were. Of course it'll be much shorter and less time, as they know the way, which can create different strategies like barring a room and staying there, which will have a strain on their resources.

The hand waving part is I do roll for a random encounter, but it all depends where they are. A safe place I'll just let time jump days/hours till they are all at the hp level they want to be and not bother with a random encounter. If it is a more dangerous area then the random encounters are rolled more often (But, much less than regular randoms) and adjusted for everything in between.

And "random" I like to have it have some kind of meaning. Or, make some kind of sense. Which is why I like the random encounter tables that are geared towards climate and just not anything showing up, and it doesn't always have to be a challenge or a fair fight. I especially like it if it can somehow tie into the actual adventure. This is one of the few times I'll "fudge" things taking interesting story telling over die-rolls.