Long Overdue Errata Updates

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:46 pm

I think Traveller, phadeout and Metathiax should get the opportunity to sign non-disclosure agreements and given advanced copies of the PHB 3rd printing, the M&T 2nd printing, and the CKG. They seem to be great at finding errata!

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:53 am

Dristram wrote:
I think Traveller, phadeout and Metathiax should get the opportunity to sign non-disclosure agreements and given advanced copies of the PHB 3rd printing, the M&T 2nd printing, and the CKG. They seem to be great at finding errata!

Trav's been part of the development of the C&C game pretty much from the begining. His assistance, among others, compiling the odd minor gaff in the books has been invaluable.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:55 am

Umm, yeah.
The Trolls already have my NDA on file.

*changes subjects*

Phadeout, I got your PMs, and I'll work on adding them as well as Met's finds to the errata. However, while I see where you're coming from in reducing the SR, the numbers will not be changed in the errata. If you want to make it a house rule though, that's cool.
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phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:20 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Trav's been part of the development of the C&C game pretty much from the begining. His assistance, among others, compiling the odd minor gaff in the books has been invaluable.

They got my NDA, but I still havn't gotten my access to the CKG forum yet *hint* *hint*

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:56 am

There is only one incarnation of HARP, right? So the HARP books I bought this past GenCon is the same HARP that you based your crit table (Beat'em to a Pulp) on?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:51 am

Some "errata" is simply "preference." Granted, when it was originally written, it may have been preference, too, but the fact that it made it as an official rule means it is not errata... its just not something someone else agrees too. Take, for example, poison costs. Many people don't like them, but they were based on the tables in M&T. I know, because I determined the poisons in the PHB.

So, keep that in mind when you're scouring the text. What you want it to say, and what it does say, might be entirely different things.

Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:52 pm

Quote:
Some "errata" is simply "preference."

Quote:
So, keep that in mind when you're scouring the text. What you want it to say, and what it does say, might be entirely different things.

To which suggested errata are you refering to as being "simply preference", apart from the Mantle of Spell Resistance/SR issue (which I've mentioned only to make sure it was the authors' genuine intention to make it that way)? I take great care not to propose errata that are not errors or potential errors and do not mix in my personal views on how I would have done things had I been the author.

On the other hand, you just can't expect readers to take the text to the letter of the law when so many inconsistencies and mistakes are still left in it, unless it was the authors' intention to leave them there, which I sure hope it is not. Although I do realize that errors almost always slip by edition (even after multiple prints), more care should be taken in editing those books. The 3rd printing would be a great occasion to do so...

Until then,

p.80: Levitate description, last sentence; "5 pg" should be written "5 gp".

p.80: Light description, last sentence; "5 pg" should be written "5 gp".

p.94: Spider Climb, SV; "inttelligence" should be written "intelligence".

I also leave out many minor presentation inconsistencies (such as spacings, capital letters, abbreviations, etc.) which are too numerous but not significant enough to bother with.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:15 pm

Obviously, as far as I can tell, all your corrections are obviously needed, and you know what Ser means by the Mantle as an example, so I think he is just saying that because things like that just need to be said, to make sure people are thinking that way, and to remind those who are thinking that way keep it in the forefront of their minds to keep thinking that way.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:53 am

serleran wrote:
Some "errata" is simply "preference." Granted, when it was originally written, it may have been preference, too, but the fact that it made it as an official rule means it is not errata... its just not something someone else agrees too. Take, for example, poison costs. Many people don't like them, but they were based on the tables in M&T. I know, because I determined the poisons in the PHB.

So, keep that in mind when you're scouring the text. What you want it to say, and what it does say, might be entirely different things.

Which is why I try to check with the powers that be before putting it into a written form. All the instances of "provisional" in the Monsters & Treasure errata should be an indicator. If you or the trolls deem that something that is in the errata is NOT errata, it gets dumped.

I don't want any "preference" in the errata documents. I want the author's intent. End of story on that.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:54 am

My HARP question? Up above?

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:56 am

Treebore wrote:
There is only one incarnation of HARP, right? So the HARP books I bought this past GenCon is the same HARP that you based your crit table (Beat'em to a Pulp) on?

Regarding HARP, the initial version of it and the version you bought are different. The combat chapter in the original version was changed to what is now in the book. Then there is HARP Lite, available for free download, whose combat section, while truncated, has the same charts as in the current version of HARP.

[EDIT: Clarification of which version of HARP has which combat chapter.]
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:17 am

So your rules/chart go by the newest version?

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:41 am

Ideally, but it really does not make much of a difference as the article will work for ANY Rolemaster-based system, unless there's a Rolemaster-based game not using criticals. Early drafts of the article had in addition to Rolemaster and HARP, MERP. But MERP and HARP critical systems were absolutely identical, so I cut MERP out of the article.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:48 am

I have the newest HARP, so I'm glad it works for it. My players won't be, but I am.

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:23 pm

So, I'm trying to figure this out. Is a Bearded Axe a 2H weapon or not?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:37 pm

bighara wrote:
So, I'm trying to figure this out. Is a Bearded Axe a 2H weapon or not?

Yes it is.
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bighara · Post by **bighara** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:47 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Yes it is.

Thanks.

The list that follows "Clarification: Equipment The following list contains those weapons which require two hands to use. Use of a two handed weapon means that both hands must be free to properly wield the weapon in question.You cannot use a shield while wielding a two handed weapon." needs updating then.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:15 am

So does the section stating "you cannot use a shield when wielding a two-handed weapon" as the use of a buckler should never be explicity forbidden. It is the one exception that makes the rule.

Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:43 pm

Witterquick wrote:
As a quick side note, I've discovered a typo in the M&T (don't know if it is listed elsewhere, but the staff of evocation is listed as having an EXP value of 788, not 7880.

Just transferring Witterquick's find here...
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:38 pm

bighara wrote:
Thanks.

The list that follows "Clarification: Equipment The following list contains those weapons which require two hands to use. Use of a two handed weapon means that both hands must be free to properly wield the weapon in question.You cannot use a shield while wielding a two handed weapon." needs updating then.

This was fixed in the 2nd printing.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:43 am

To those who have kindly sent me private messages asking about added updates to the 2d print errata, I haven't forgotten, and I might actually have time to put in what's been added to this thread tomorrow. However, if anyone who still frequents Dragonsfoot can forward me errata found there, I'd very much appreciate it. Since I no longer frequent that site, I am missing one of my sources I had for the 1st print errata.

And just a reminder for everyone....

The errata for the 1st printing is frozen, meaning there will be no further updates to that particular document. The focus of this thread I do believe is on the 2d printing and correcting any of its gaffes. If I'm wrong, someone let me know. After all, I only started the thread.
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jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:46 am

phadeout wrote:
I really should have gone got a degree in something that would helped me be an RPG Editor, prolly don't pay as good as my IT job though.

That must be one of the biggest understatements I have ever read...
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jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:55 am

Hmmm... well, if nothing else, it seems the name of the "Mantle of Spell Resistance" should be changed to "Mantle of Virtual Spell Immunity."
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:47 pm

LOL.

The lack of errata in regards to the Mantle ruffled at least one person's virtual feathers back when it was initially discussed. So much so that after having it explained to them just why the Mantle wasn't going to have any errata they went and ranted on another forum about it. They then deleted what they wrote after having vented.

What was forgotten in the whole thing was that there was nothing that said that the person couldn't change the Mantle's SR to a different number for his games, if he disagreed with what was written. Officially, there is no change, and the Mantle is correct. BUT, if people are peeved about the Mantle granting virtual spell immunity, change the SR and the gp value to reflect the lesser protection of the changed Mantle. That gp value though should still be far more than the gp value of the Armor of Spell Resistance, since the Mantle isn't limited to fighters like the Armor.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:42 am

Dristram wrote:
Interesting. It looks like the Trolls adjusted page 50 but not page 123. And page 5 of the M&T is the 1st printing writing. My guess is they meant to add a modifier.

I'm not about to drop this particular one into the errata until I get notice from on high as to what the intent is regarding spell resistance.

Oh, and updated Players Handbook and Monsters & Treasure errata is available.
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Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:11 am

Traveller wrote:
Oh, and updated Players Handbook and Monsters & Treasure errata is available.

Thanks for the update!
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phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:22 pm

Traveller wrote:
Oh, and updated Players Handbook and Monsters & Treasure errata is available.

Ahhh, thank you Traveller... Now I'm finally happy with M&T with that errata. Took some digging on the old forums and a few discussions with Serleran, so worth it.

Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:37 am

Some other finds :

Atonement (p.62), Regenerate (p.89), and Resilient Sphere (p.90) are missing their duration entry.

I think that the command undead example (p.122) should be changed to "Thus, a 6th level evil cleric could control a maximum of 30 skeletons." since a 5th level evil cleric is 1 level short of being able to control skeletons in the first place.

Also, is the Invisibility spell (p.79) really supposed to be permanent?
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:29 am

You want something interesting? Not really an errata as such, but check out and read the Clone Spell... And if you recall, compare it to other versions in previous editions of AD&D.

This one truly has no limits! How many clones do you want running around at the same time? The only limit is resources and time. Best part is, you don't develop that over whelming urge to kill one another after a period of time!

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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:48 am

Metathiax wrote:
Some other finds :

Atonement (p.62), Regenerate (p.89), and Resilient Sphere (p.90) are missing their duration entry.

I think that the command undead example (p.122) should be changed to "Thus, a 6th level evil cleric could control a maximum of 30 skeletons." since a 5th level evil cleric is 1 level short of being able to control skeletons in the first place.

Also, is the Invisibility spell (p.79) really supposed to be permanent?

To answer these:

Duration of Atonement is instantaneous, thus there is no need for a duration, but I'll look in the PHB for similar spells like Cure Light Wounds and find out how to phrase it for the errata. Most likely, the duration is supposed to be "permanent".

Regeneration is instantaneous, thus no need for a duration (see above).

Resilient Sphere duration is 1 min/level in the SRD.

Command Undead - 6th level makes sense, but I'll look deeper, since the SRD has a maximum of one undead creature.

Invisibility I suspect is supposed to work like in AD&D, permanent until dispelled.
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