I'm not big on "balancing" every class, but I do think that it's important to not have classes that are so weak that few will play them. I am wondering if the illusionist is that class. They advance at low levels as do wizards, but their spell list is obviously much shorter and the spells, again at low levels, are weaker.
In 2E (and the SRD), the illusionist "specialist wizard" got an extra spell per spell level available in exchange for sacrificing other schools of magic. Now, the 1E/C&C lists seem to take away many more schools than that but the wizard spell advancement doesn't give them anything.
So, why not let illusionists have an extra spell per spell level available to the character? I am thinking an extra color spray per day is not going to result in whole parties of illusionists played by nerfing players
BB
wizards v. illusionists
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Philotomy Jurament
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Sounds like a reasonable approach if you want to get some more illusionists into play.
I see the illusionist as representing a different sort of magical archetype from magic-users. That is, more of an alternative to be used if that sort of magic/spellcaster fit your campaign or story better. It seems like I saw a discussion, somewhere, where Gary Gygax confirmed that, but I don't remember where.
I see the illusionist as representing a different sort of magical archetype from magic-users. That is, more of an alternative to be used if that sort of magic/spellcaster fit your campaign or story better. It seems like I saw a discussion, somewhere, where Gary Gygax confirmed that, but I don't remember where.
Re: wizards v. illusionists
Barrataria wrote:
So, why not let illusionists have an extra spell per spell level available to the character? I am thinking an extra color spray per day is not going to result in whole parties of illusionists played by nerfing players
BB
I agree and would allow this, easily. I too feel the illusionist is slightly under-powered. 8)
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
The illusionist takes a bit to "get going" like the wizard, but unlike the wizard, they need WAY less experience past 10th level. With the illusionist only need 150,000xp every level past 12, and the wizard needing 250,000, the illusionist has a huge advantage here. You could say, the illusionist has crappier spells, but they just don't have all the great offensive spells the wizard does. Overall, a good player, can do more outrageous and inventive things with an illusionist - they have to be played smart.
If you allow multi-classing, the illusionist is a super great class to multi-class rogues, assassins, bards and even fighter types with (monk?). At higher levels, the low experience cost of the illusionist would make a Rogue/Illusionist level up nearly as fast as a single class wizard! You can't beat that.
But, that's if you allow multi-classing.
If you're adding your own spells to the game, you have to make sure the illusionist gains new spells along with the wizard, else the illusionist WILL fall behind due to a smaller spell selection...
My 2 copper.
If you allow multi-classing, the illusionist is a super great class to multi-class rogues, assassins, bards and even fighter types with (monk?). At higher levels, the low experience cost of the illusionist would make a Rogue/Illusionist level up nearly as fast as a single class wizard! You can't beat that.
But, that's if you allow multi-classing.
If you're adding your own spells to the game, you have to make sure the illusionist gains new spells along with the wizard, else the illusionist WILL fall behind due to a smaller spell selection...
My 2 copper.
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gideon_thorne
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I dunno, I'd say a class who can litterally scare someone to death is pretty damn effective.
It takes a bit of out of the box thinking, and a good sense of theatrics, but the class can be quite useful even with lower level spells.
Major Image, for example, a third level spell that can convince people they are taking damage. The class can, effectively, invent the effects of any spell or situation.
Perhaps the illusionist conjures the effect of a ceiling falling on someones head, complete with earthquake effects? A target creature in a 40 foot room isnt going to be too over analytical if the place gets into the old shake rattle and roll.
Most folks tend to run like scared rabbits in that situation.
The Illusionist is like the Thief in approach. One has to prepare the ground, as it were, in favor of the classes' strength.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
It takes a bit of out of the box thinking, and a good sense of theatrics, but the class can be quite useful even with lower level spells.
Major Image, for example, a third level spell that can convince people they are taking damage. The class can, effectively, invent the effects of any spell or situation.
Perhaps the illusionist conjures the effect of a ceiling falling on someones head, complete with earthquake effects? A target creature in a 40 foot room isnt going to be too over analytical if the place gets into the old shake rattle and roll.
Most folks tend to run like scared rabbits in that situation.
The Illusionist is like the Thief in approach. One has to prepare the ground, as it were, in favor of the classes' strength.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
I would never play an Illusionist anything like a Wizard. They are arcane tricksters, they divert attention, make shadows where none exist and cloud the minds of men in ways only the most skilled of merchants could ever dream of approaching.
With their ability to disguise themselves and their retinue of spells, even a low-level Illusionist can be a great asset to an adventuring party or even an army. They are all about appearances, masking appearances and creating appearances. As all good Generals know, a battle of often won before the first call to attack has been uttered.
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Earned the following:
50 Useless Trivia Points from Serleran
With their ability to disguise themselves and their retinue of spells, even a low-level Illusionist can be a great asset to an adventuring party or even an army. They are all about appearances, masking appearances and creating appearances. As all good Generals know, a battle of often won before the first call to attack has been uttered.
_________________
Earned the following:
50 Useless Trivia Points from Serleran
Illusion, in general, is treated by many DM's as being very weak. IE easy to disbelieve.
When I run NPC Illusionists I have them create Illusions of realistic monsters, or classed characters, and run them like I am running a normal encounter (because the illusionist is hiding or invisible) and don't even allow the players a save until they say they disbelieve.
Now to give them a chance, I will give a clue or two about some "wierdness" of the creature they are encountering.
So the two times I have ever had a player play an Illusionist I gave them the same treatment. I would ask the player what illusion they are using and determine if they have ever seen the creature they are using. I would use that info to determine if the opponent would have a chance to disbelieve, or not. If they didn't have a chance, or failed the "check" to see if they disbelieved, they had to treat the illusion as if it were real.
As a result of this practice of mine, one illusionist used an illusion of a fighter who had been a member of the party and had died. So the Illusionist often "summoned" him to defend him, and based that Illusions fighting expertise off of the Ranger and Fighter that were in the party.
Plus Illusionary Fireballs and Lightning Bolts almost always worked, especially since the Illusionist had been on the receiving end of a couple and was adventuring with a Wizard.
Needless to say, Illusionists in my games were feared and hated, because the players hated the idea that they may be taking damage from a spell or creature that isn't even real, or is only partly real (shadow spells). So I took this "fear and hatred" and generalized it to the attitude of my camapign worlds people.
So Illusionists are actually pretty powerful in my games, and since they can "do anything" they can imagine with their illusions, they are incredibly versatile. As long as their opponents aren't mindless, such as undead, oozes, golems, and creatures with animal intelligence (that I determined had a good sense of smell, anyways, or were essentially blind, etc...)
When I run NPC Illusionists I have them create Illusions of realistic monsters, or classed characters, and run them like I am running a normal encounter (because the illusionist is hiding or invisible) and don't even allow the players a save until they say they disbelieve.
Now to give them a chance, I will give a clue or two about some "wierdness" of the creature they are encountering.
So the two times I have ever had a player play an Illusionist I gave them the same treatment. I would ask the player what illusion they are using and determine if they have ever seen the creature they are using. I would use that info to determine if the opponent would have a chance to disbelieve, or not. If they didn't have a chance, or failed the "check" to see if they disbelieved, they had to treat the illusion as if it were real.
As a result of this practice of mine, one illusionist used an illusion of a fighter who had been a member of the party and had died. So the Illusionist often "summoned" him to defend him, and based that Illusions fighting expertise off of the Ranger and Fighter that were in the party.
Plus Illusionary Fireballs and Lightning Bolts almost always worked, especially since the Illusionist had been on the receiving end of a couple and was adventuring with a Wizard.
Needless to say, Illusionists in my games were feared and hated, because the players hated the idea that they may be taking damage from a spell or creature that isn't even real, or is only partly real (shadow spells). So I took this "fear and hatred" and generalized it to the attitude of my camapign worlds people.
So Illusionists are actually pretty powerful in my games, and since they can "do anything" they can imagine with their illusions, they are incredibly versatile. As long as their opponents aren't mindless, such as undead, oozes, golems, and creatures with animal intelligence (that I determined had a good sense of smell, anyways, or were essentially blind, etc...)
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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gideon_thorne
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And another point. How is anyone going to know that the character is an illusionist? Characters dont walk around with signs painted on their forehead as to what class they are. One would simply assume that someone who looks like a wizard is a wizard and act accordingly. 8)
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
gideon_thorne wrote:
And another point. How is anyone going to know that the character is an illusionist? Characters dont walk around with signs painted on their forehead as to what class they are. One would simply assume that someone who looks like a wizard is a wizard and act accordingly. 8)
Or even better, since the Illusionist has Disguise as one of his/her only skills outside of magic, use it to appear as something else entirely - at all times. So the adventuring group has a henchman that takes care of the animals, or maybe a Knight/Paladin has a squire that carries his sword - but in the background, he is all eyes and ears, and manipulating people without them even being aware that this "nobody" has any power at all
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gideon_thorne
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phadeout wrote:
Or even better, since the Illusionist has Disguise as one of his/her only skills outside of magic, use it to appear as something else entirely - at all times. So the adventuring group has a henchman that takes care of the animals, or maybe a Knight/Paladin has a squire that carries his sword - but in the background, he is all eyes and ears, and manipulating people without them even being aware that this "nobody" has any power at all
Thats the spirit!
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
Yeah, now your getting the Illusionist, the master at behind the scenes manipulation! Keeping you totally in the dark, never knowing the truth about how he looks or what he is. You won't ever know, not even in death, if the Illusionist has their way.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Illusionists are my favorite... and yes, on paper they seem weaker than wizards. But if you play them old school style, they start to get nasty as soon as the wizard does. They're just not as frontal assault as the wizard (though they can be).
There was a thread a while ago with guidelines to adjudicate illusions in a balanced way, and people had a lot of good ideas. Maybe it was on Dragonsfoot... I don't remember. But if you have a sound reasonable framework for dealing with them, illusionists will not be underpowered in your campaign.
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Moorcrys
There was a thread a while ago with guidelines to adjudicate illusions in a balanced way, and people had a lot of good ideas. Maybe it was on Dragonsfoot... I don't remember. But if you have a sound reasonable framework for dealing with them, illusionists will not be underpowered in your campaign.
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Moorcrys
I found this over on dragonsfoot and tweaked it a bit in case it helps you out at all:
There are no codified rules regarding adjudicating illusions, C&C's all about tailoring such things to your campaign, but in general for me:
Guidelines for using Image spells to create damaging effects:
The image spells can cause full damage as per the spells the illusionist mimics, with some clarifications.
1) Intelligence saving throws, then if believed, the appropriate saving throws for the spell being duplicated. If the illusion is of a persistent threat, like a fighter wielding a sword, the saving throw occurs once when first interacted with (i.e., when the fighter is struck by the target or the fighter strikes the target). Surprised creatures generally get no intelligence saving throw to disbelieve instantly damaging illusions (like an illusory fireball) as they have no chance to scrutinize or interperet what's happening to them.
2) Attempting to create an illusion of power greater than the illusionist's level results in a flawed and unbelievable illusion ... a 5th level illusionist can create a believable 5HD fireball or a 5th level fighter with a major image spell, but not a believable 6HD fireball or 6th level fighter.
3) The illusionist must have experienced the effect firsthand (been struck by a fireball for instance) in order to duplicate its effect believably or have scrutinized the object, creature, or force firsthand (and up-close and personal) to re-create believably.
4) Silent Image and to a lesser extent Minor Image, being that they cannot duplicate texture, temperature, or smell, are far too limited to duplicate most spell effects in such a way as to make them potent enough to cause damage. You may attempt to duplicate a damaging effect using Minor Image, but targets gain an automatic +4 bonus to their Intelligence saving throw. Major Image and beyond will allow you to duplicate effects with the potency to cause actual damage if believed... Silent and Minor Image are excellent spells for distractions and misdirections.
5) Once an illusionist is known to be throwing around illusory effects in order to cause damage (i.e., someone makes their saving throw against such an effect and those around them see they are completely unscathed by the effect), creatures of applicable intelligence or knowledge gain a +4 saving throw bonus to shrug off additional illusory damaging effects caused by spells such as major image for the remainder of that encounter or in the future against that particular illusionist (provided he is recognized as such in future encounters and not disguised or hidden). Shadow magics (such as shadow evocation), however, are not penalized in such a way.
6) Dangerous creature abilities (a medusa's gaze that turns to stone, gorgon's breath, etc.) will not cause a physical transformation or death but will cause the creature to assume a logical similar state (failed saving throws equal paralysis for a medusa's gaze for as long as the illusory effect lasts or until the creature passes out, or simply passing out from a perceived gorgon's breath that the target believes has killed him or her) -- of course the illusion makes you appear turned to stone or dead or whatever the effect is for as long as the spell persists.
7) If an illusionist wants a spell to cause 'instant death' (...the ceiling slab falls onto those kobolds), I generally require an image spell of 4th level or higher (persistent image, permanent image, or programmed image -- 'balance'-wise it has to be on par with or more powerful than a phantasmal killer spell). I explain it as a mental strain too extreme to maintain such a deadly effect with mere concentration as demanded by a major image spell. Such effects can be created at lower levels to create life-threatening but ultimately harmless effects (such as causing an illusory ceiling collapse with a major image spell that forces believing creatures to make 'fake' dexterity rolls to avoid being crushed... but the spell will never kill them -- if they 'got wise' and simply stood there the ceiling would crumble down around them and cause them no harm).
Those are guidelines that I generally use, stolen from old dragon magazine articles and mixed with some personal preference. It's totally up to you how powerful or weak to make illusions... but these guidelines seem to make an illusionist character viable and powerful but not overpowered.
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Moorcrys
There are no codified rules regarding adjudicating illusions, C&C's all about tailoring such things to your campaign, but in general for me:
Guidelines for using Image spells to create damaging effects:
The image spells can cause full damage as per the spells the illusionist mimics, with some clarifications.
1) Intelligence saving throws, then if believed, the appropriate saving throws for the spell being duplicated. If the illusion is of a persistent threat, like a fighter wielding a sword, the saving throw occurs once when first interacted with (i.e., when the fighter is struck by the target or the fighter strikes the target). Surprised creatures generally get no intelligence saving throw to disbelieve instantly damaging illusions (like an illusory fireball) as they have no chance to scrutinize or interperet what's happening to them.
2) Attempting to create an illusion of power greater than the illusionist's level results in a flawed and unbelievable illusion ... a 5th level illusionist can create a believable 5HD fireball or a 5th level fighter with a major image spell, but not a believable 6HD fireball or 6th level fighter.
3) The illusionist must have experienced the effect firsthand (been struck by a fireball for instance) in order to duplicate its effect believably or have scrutinized the object, creature, or force firsthand (and up-close and personal) to re-create believably.
4) Silent Image and to a lesser extent Minor Image, being that they cannot duplicate texture, temperature, or smell, are far too limited to duplicate most spell effects in such a way as to make them potent enough to cause damage. You may attempt to duplicate a damaging effect using Minor Image, but targets gain an automatic +4 bonus to their Intelligence saving throw. Major Image and beyond will allow you to duplicate effects with the potency to cause actual damage if believed... Silent and Minor Image are excellent spells for distractions and misdirections.
5) Once an illusionist is known to be throwing around illusory effects in order to cause damage (i.e., someone makes their saving throw against such an effect and those around them see they are completely unscathed by the effect), creatures of applicable intelligence or knowledge gain a +4 saving throw bonus to shrug off additional illusory damaging effects caused by spells such as major image for the remainder of that encounter or in the future against that particular illusionist (provided he is recognized as such in future encounters and not disguised or hidden). Shadow magics (such as shadow evocation), however, are not penalized in such a way.
6) Dangerous creature abilities (a medusa's gaze that turns to stone, gorgon's breath, etc.) will not cause a physical transformation or death but will cause the creature to assume a logical similar state (failed saving throws equal paralysis for a medusa's gaze for as long as the illusory effect lasts or until the creature passes out, or simply passing out from a perceived gorgon's breath that the target believes has killed him or her) -- of course the illusion makes you appear turned to stone or dead or whatever the effect is for as long as the spell persists.
7) If an illusionist wants a spell to cause 'instant death' (...the ceiling slab falls onto those kobolds), I generally require an image spell of 4th level or higher (persistent image, permanent image, or programmed image -- 'balance'-wise it has to be on par with or more powerful than a phantasmal killer spell). I explain it as a mental strain too extreme to maintain such a deadly effect with mere concentration as demanded by a major image spell. Such effects can be created at lower levels to create life-threatening but ultimately harmless effects (such as causing an illusory ceiling collapse with a major image spell that forces believing creatures to make 'fake' dexterity rolls to avoid being crushed... but the spell will never kill them -- if they 'got wise' and simply stood there the ceiling would crumble down around them and cause them no harm).
Those are guidelines that I generally use, stolen from old dragon magazine articles and mixed with some personal preference. It's totally up to you how powerful or weak to make illusions... but these guidelines seem to make an illusionist character viable and powerful but not overpowered.
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Moorcrys
Those are good. The logic behind them is largely what I have been using, probably form subconcious memories of reading those old Dragon mags.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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Barrataria
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Hmm. Good stuff. I won't be allowing multiclassing, so that won't matter. Illusionist is an outstanding multiclass option.
I wasn't saying I don't think it's interesting/effective at all, just that in a small party I'm betting players generally won't want to run one. And I don't think that giving them the "specialty school" bonus will throw anything out of whack.
PS. Did you ever notice how many deranged illusionists masterminded plots for PCs to foil?
BB
I wasn't saying I don't think it's interesting/effective at all, just that in a small party I'm betting players generally won't want to run one. And I don't think that giving them the "specialty school" bonus will throw anything out of whack.
PS. Did you ever notice how many deranged illusionists masterminded plots for PCs to foil?
BB
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gideon_thorne
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Barrataria wrote:
Hmm. Good stuff. I won't be allowing multiclassing, so that won't matter. Illusionist is an outstanding multiclass option.
I wasn't saying I don't think it's interesting/effective at all, just that in a small party I'm betting players generally won't want to run one. And I don't think that giving them the "specialty school" bonus will throw anything out of whack.
PS. Did you ever notice how many deranged illusionists masterminded plots for PCs to foil?
BB
*smiles* I like running adventures where an illusionist is the main villain. Its fun to mess with a party when they dont know what is or isnt real.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
Reminds me of a dungeon once ran wherein the whole was composed of dreamstuff created by a dashing faerie dragon who'd taken a liking to a gnome in the party, and wanted to test his mettle.
Illusionists are very powerful, but it takes a CK that understands the limits, and means of judging the effects, in addition to having the flexibility to allow things "outside." Illusionists can, literally, do anything... and if under their own sollipsisms, can be more powerful than gods.
Illusionists are very powerful, but it takes a CK that understands the limits, and means of judging the effects, in addition to having the flexibility to allow things "outside." Illusionists can, literally, do anything... and if under their own sollipsisms, can be more powerful than gods.
In my experience, illusionists were not a popular class in any edition of D&D. They're not a straight forward class to play. You really need to think out of the box with them. So really only a certain kind of player would want to play one. So I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't worry about whether players will want to play one. It's a special kind of class.Barrataria wrote:
I wasn't saying I don't think it's interesting/effective at all, just that in a small party I'm betting players generally won't want to run one.
I have an idea, in oder to keep the illusionist as a unique kind of magic-user, don't change or get rid of the illusionist, but have an option for a wizard to study illusion magic. He would not be an illusionist or a specialist wizard. He'd just be a wizard who has found a way, through his general interest in all things magic, to cast illusion magic. Maybe allow wizards to learn illusionist spells at 2 levels lower. So a 3rd level wizard could learn one illusion spell per level and learn them as a 1st level illusionist. I hope that makes sense. I may actually do that IMC.Quote:
And I don't think that giving them the "specialty school" bonus will throw anything out of whack.
I played one up to 17th level in 2E. A Gnome too. Gestafi Mendolez. I might be pursuaded to share some trade secrets with other aspiring Illusionists.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Treebore wrote:
I played one up to 17th level in 2E. A Gnome too. Gestafi Mendolez. I might be pursuaded to share some trade secrets with other aspiring Illusionists.
Nice, Gnomes were always my favorite, and I've played all iterations in 2E:
Illusionist, Fighter/Illusionist, Illusionist/Thief... I loved them all.
I don't think there is a single Gnome type that I haven't played in 2E, single class Fighters, Thiefs, Clerics, and my all time favorite, who is about 14th/15th Level, a Cleric/Thief Gnome - god he is fun, I have about 3 years play time in him! I will be playing him again soon too...
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gideon_thorne
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Treebore wrote:
I played one up to 17th level in 2E. A Gnome too. Gestafi Mendolez. I might be pursuaded to share some trade secrets with other aspiring Illusionists.
Highest one, and one of two I have right now, is a 14th level illusionist named Claryanna. Obviously Cha and Int are her two highest stats.
The other illusionist is just starting out in Steve's convention run games and is quite adept at annoying the hell out of Nym's character in the same game.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
I have ot admit he is my "funnest" character.
I love having him do shows for kids all the time, he was also big into tailoring. Colors! Big loud colors!! Lots of them!!
Plus I played him crazy. Wasn't afraid of death. Took on a dragon in an age cagtegory wayy to powerful for him. He thought he had a good chance if he got him to fly into a wall of Force, but it made its MR and flew right through. Fortunately he had the right spells to successfully run away when he realized he couldn't win.
He was great fun playing a PC the way I never played any other. Totally care free, devil may care, afraid of nothing. Just the challenge.
I love having him do shows for kids all the time, he was also big into tailoring. Colors! Big loud colors!! Lots of them!!
Plus I played him crazy. Wasn't afraid of death. Took on a dragon in an age cagtegory wayy to powerful for him. He thought he had a good chance if he got him to fly into a wall of Force, but it made its MR and flew right through. Fortunately he had the right spells to successfully run away when he realized he couldn't win.
He was great fun playing a PC the way I never played any other. Totally care free, devil may care, afraid of nothing. Just the challenge.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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Barrataria
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gideon_thorne wrote:
Highest one, and one of two I have right now, is a 14th level illusionist named Claryanna. Obviously Cha and Int are her two highest stats.
The other illusionist is just starting out in Steve's convention run games and is quite adept at annoying the hell out of Nym's character in the same game.
Well, it would certainly help to see an illustration of this character.
For research purposes only.
BB
I'm told a certain figure on the new CK screen is one of Peter's characters.
I'm a stick figure artist, so I know you have to be angling for Peter to post illo's of his characters.
I'm a stick figure artist, so I know you have to be angling for Peter to post illo's of his characters.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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gideon_thorne
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Treebore wrote:
I'm told a certain figure on the new CK screen is one of Peter's characters.
I'm a stick figure artist, so I know you have to be angling for Peter to post illo's of his characters.
Ayup. The Thief.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'No.' " ~Rorschach
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StealthSuitStanley
- Hlobane Orc
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Sidney, OH, USA
I am currently playing an illusionist in Witterquick's campaign and loving it. Though he's a tough CK!!
Everything positive about illusionists that has been said here is exactly correct. They are very difficult to play "in the box" which is why you should always make sure the CK is capable enough to handle you.
My problem is that I find something that works and keep doing that. Eventually, it starts to become old hat and not so enjoyable to play. This is why I think that playing an illusionist can sometimes be very difficult. Sometimes you just run out of boxes to think outside of! Then things get boring very quickly.
Of course, it is still more fun than rolling a d20 and hoping you have enough bunuses to hit...
Everything positive about illusionists that has been said here is exactly correct. They are very difficult to play "in the box" which is why you should always make sure the CK is capable enough to handle you.
My problem is that I find something that works and keep doing that. Eventually, it starts to become old hat and not so enjoyable to play. This is why I think that playing an illusionist can sometimes be very difficult. Sometimes you just run out of boxes to think outside of! Then things get boring very quickly.
Of course, it is still more fun than rolling a d20 and hoping you have enough bunuses to hit...
CK of the Planewalker's Society
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StealthSuitStanley
- Hlobane Orc
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Sidney, OH, USA
Treebore wrote:
I played one up to 17th level in 2E. A Gnome too. Gestafi Mendolez. I might be pursuaded to share some trade secrets with other aspiring Illusionists.
I'd like to hear some of those trade secrets. I've done some of the normal things. walls, distracting noises, illusionary fighters, etc.
c'mon man... lets hear some secrets!!!
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later
SSS
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"Size matters not."
-Yoda, Jedi Master
CK of the Planewalker's Society
StealthSuitStanley wrote:
I'd like to hear some of those trade secrets. I've done some of the normal things. walls, distracting noises, illusionary fighters, etc.
c'mon man... lets hear some secrets!!!
Stand behind and archer and tell the archer, "Whatever happens, just go with it."
Cast your illusion and suddenly, the archer sprouts additional arms, bows and arrows! The archer draws back all at once and lets loose 5 seperate arrows at the same time. Since this illusion can be held up as long as concentration or someone decides it is fake and makes a save... The archer can continue to fire five arrows into an oncoming group at the same time.
This is with the first level spell, "Silent Image" the bows and arrows don't need to make any noise, especially if the targets are near the end of the long range of the archer.
This can also be used with a group of archers standing off against some charging enemies.
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Earned the following:
50 Useless Trivia Points from Serleran
Quote:
Stand behind and archer and tell the archer, "Whatever happens, just go with it."
Cast your illusion and suddenly, the archer sprouts additional arms, bows and arrows! The archer draws back all at once and lets loose 5 seperate arrows at the same time. Since this illusion can be held up as long as concentration or someone decides it is fake and makes a save... The archer can continue to fire five arrows into an oncoming group at the same time.
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain
Forgive all spelling errors.
Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain
Forgive all spelling errors.
Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society
Forgive all spelling errors.
Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society