1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:01 pm

This question is most likely a matter opinion, I'd just like some discussion to make sure I'm not out to lunch.

I have a huge stack of 2E material. I mainly played 2E, some 3E (quickly got tired of it) and I did play some basic before 2E. I didn't play much try AD&D 1E (though I've looked at the books many times).

Apparently, C&C is based off of 1E and 3E, but since I have sooo much 2E material (especially Monsters and FR stuff), I want to use a lot of it with C&C.

Is there much issue, converting 2E monsters vs converting 1E?

Is 1E a better choice, does it even matter? Would I be better off backwards converting 3E monsters than 1E?

I guess I'm looking for the most accurate representation for C&C. I am sorely tempted just to use 2E material and 3E material since it would cover all my needs. But would this misrepresent things?

I guess I'm a stickler for consistency...

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:08 pm

There's some local folk I know who play 2e, and plan on using alll of it with their C&C games.

When it comes right down too it, the only fundamental things one has to worry about is task resolution and the Armour Class.

Everything else in 2e can be used with the Seige Engine pretty well as is.

Bear in mind that C&C was aided in its development by those who came from all editions of D&D, not just the earliest and latest editions.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:41 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
There's some local folk I know who play 2e, and plan on using alll of it with their C&C games.

When it comes right down too it, the only fundamental things one has to worry about is task resolution and the Armour Class.

Everything else in 2e can be used with the Seige Engine pretty well as is.

Bear in mind that C&C was aided in its development by those who came from all editions of D&D, not just the earliest and latest editions.

I guess I'm just trying to narrow things down to make it easier for myself since it's almost too easy to pull things from any edition. I am mainly going to pull from 2E I think, use M&T where I can, and maybe use some 3E magic item ideas... I'd pull most new spells from 2E.

But, would it be better to pull things maybe from 1E rather than 2 or 3 when it comes to spells, monsters and magic items? I do prefer the 2nd edition spells, I guess it's about keeping the magic items and monsters in line with C&C/M&T.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:55 pm

I'm kind of like you, other than I played 1E for years. I spent over 10 years playing 2E and have the half ton fo books to prove it.

Anyways, when I first started off with C&C I was going to be primarily 2E in my spells list, classes, etc.... To make what I could write as a long story short, 2E material is just about as easy to use for C&C as 1E material. I wold say that there is no difference in difficulty using it. In fact I don't consider it difficult at all, I consider it easy now that I have the "formula" for converting AC down, etc...

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:02 pm

2E in C&C... A SNAP! If you are very familiar with 2E, and have a good understnading of C&C mechanics, then the conversion process can almost always be done on the fly. It's that easy to convert IMO.

......................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:53 pm

Omote wrote:
2E in C&C... A SNAP! If you are very familiar with 2E, and have a good understnading of C&C mechanics, then the conversion process can almost always be done on the fly. It's that easy to convert IMO.

......................................Omote

FPQ

Yeah, I know it's easy to convert... I'm just wondering if I should convert 2E stuff (giving it precedence) over 1E stuff...

I guess in the end it just doesn't matter, since it's all abstract and based on your campaign, one isn't going to be better than the other.

Moorcrys · Post by **Moorcrys** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:02 pm

If you have a ton of 2E stuff and you like it, I see no reason why you should go off and invest in a ton of 1E material to boot. Particularly if you like the 2E stuff you have. Stat-wise they're very similar and if you have all of those old monstrous compendiums you'll have a ton of monsters that are just as easy to use as 1e monsters.

I think of C&C as closer to 1e, but truth be told my non-C&C prized possessions for use in my C&C campaign are the Wizard and Priest Spell compendiums (yes to spheres I say) and the encyclopedia magica volumes, all of which came out for 2E.
_________________
----------------

Moorcrys

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:03 pm

Moorcrys wrote:
If you have a ton of 2E stuff and you like it, I see no reason why you should go off and invest in a ton of 1E material to boot. Particularly if you like the 2E stuff you have. Stat-wise they're very similar and if you have all of those old monstrous compendiums you'll have a ton of monsters that are just as easy to use as 1e monsters.

I think of C&C as closer to 1e, but truth be told my non-C&C prized possessions for use in my C&C campaign are the Wizard and Priest Spell compendiums (yes to spheres I say) and the encyclopedia magica volumes, all of which came out for 2E.

Yeah, this is how I see it, no point in using the 1E stuff if I can just use all the rest.

Thanx!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:14 pm

The only 1E stuff worth getting and using are the adventures. So just keep an eye out for them on the cheap, on eBay, in used book stores, etc...

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:28 pm

phadeout wrote:
I guess I'm just trying to narrow things down to make it easier for myself since it's almost too easy to pull things from any edition.

Understandable. I've played a lot of 2e myself and know it about as well as I know 1e and OD&D. As has been suggested, it's mainly a matter of handwaving any 'conversions'.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:10 pm

Phade, what kind of stuff you plan to covert, for most of the monsters, for example, jut open the book, chek HD, change thac0 and AC to C&C standards and get it going, won't do any more damage than you would with a monster already converte or made to C&C.

Adventures do require conversion though, since they use some mechanical aspects to solve some issues during game play. And in case you are wondering, the friend I agve C&C Player's Handbook too did just that, I think he even doubts the need to buy the Monster & Treasure books, since with a few friends we easily have around 10 different monsters books made for 2nd edition.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:14 am

Anything that makes my game interesting. I rarely convery anything though, as I am rather bored with repetition.

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:18 am

Nifelhein wrote:
Adventures do require conversion though, since they use some mechanical aspects to solve some issues during game play. And in case you are wondering, the friend I agve C&C Player's Handbook too did just that, I think he even doubts the need to buy the Monster & Treasure books, since with a few friends we easily have around 10 different monsters books made for 2nd edition.

Heya Nif,

I won't be converting too many adventures... I may play a bit in FR, and maybe do a little Undermountain or Myth Drannor. I don't have any problem doing conversions, they are easy enough, I'm just probing the waters on what is "best" to convert. I think I'll stick with 2E and 3E, as I really like my 2E monster books (even more than the 3E ones...). I'll use the C&C monsters where I can, and just convert the rest - maybe replacing the odd C&C monster with a 2E conterpart if I feel the 2E version is more how I want to represent the creature (Like all the cool beholders, especially from Undermountain, Elder Orb baby!

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:20 am

serleran wrote:
Anything that makes my game interesting. I rarely convery anything though, as I am rather bored with repetition.

Well, for me, I didn't get to do all the things I wanted in 2E, I have SOOO much stuff that never got fully used that I can't help but use some of it

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:26 am

Ah Phade...

Well, then do not bother yourself too much, convert from the most interesting source, I have mostly 2nd / 3rd edition material, being somewhat too young for the older editions, so those would be my primary source.

I will be ordering M&T this month, if things don't go terribly wrong on me, maybe with C&C I will put some more use into my Ravenloft monster compendiums...
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

Barrataria · Post by **Barrataria** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:50 am

In general I'd recommend using whatever you know best. Over the past couple of years I've DMd 1E, played 2E, ignored 3E, played and DMd C&C, and DM'd two campaigns of B/X. The differences are subtle, but they're definitely there.

I'd suggest 1E for spells; I think they more directly correlate with the C&C lists. If you are talking modules, remember that the arcane spellcasters are much more powerful in C&C than their earlier brethren (more spells).

BB

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:45 am

Quote:
Well, for me, I didn't get to do all the things I wanted in 2E, I have SOOO much stuff that never got fully used that I can't help but use some of it Rolling Eyes

Yeah, and I'm the opposite, in a sense. If I didn't use it when it was released, it meant I didn't like it enough to bother with figuring a means to incorporate the material.

Stuff that I get that's new to me, I use. But, seeing as "conversion" for C&C is more or less ignore this, subtract that from 20... I don't consider it a real "conversion." Its not like I'm taking Shadowrun cyberware and adding it to MERP (though it can be done...) which would be a true conversion (ie, mechanics have to change completely, rather than simply numbers...)

Anyway... hope you enjoy the fresh look at stuff you've had a while. Every now and then I find something neat in something I thought was useless... or, sometimes, I find a whole new way to see it (like, for example, the Endless Armies 2e module.)

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:09 am

phadeout wrote:
Apparently, C&C is based off of 1E and 3E,

Don't forget OD&D. The stat bonuses are exactly the same.
As for your question, I won't be of much use. I haven't tried much converting yet. But I'm working on setting up my C&C to really have a 1e feel, that being my favorite edition.

Troll Lord Games

1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

Re: 1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

Re: 1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

Re: 1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C

Re: 1E vs 2e vs 3e for C&C