Troll Lord Games

I was wondering if the booklets in the C&C White Box would be good for refrence, as they obviously would be a lot lighter to tote around, whenever I don't feel like toting my hardbacks.

What printing are they based on?
How bad is the errata between that printing and now? (Never played C&C prior to the 4th printing.)

The rules are lighter in that you have only the basic classes (cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard) and basic races (dwarf, elf, halfling, human). Each class is hard-capped at 10. This is so that not every spell has to be included. The spells themselves don't have any ranges, durations, or saving throws which makes them a bit less useful. There is a monster missing from the Monsters & Treasure book.

Here is the thread I posted in Keeper Advice with the link to the Collector's Edition Errata. However, I would encourage you to use the quickstart rules in conjunction with the Collector's Edition as the quickstart's rules are more up to date. The Collector's Edition was based on a pre-1st printing manuscript.

Ah! they are more reduced than I thought. I might try and track down a digest PHB or wait until a fifth printing digest is made.

I'm genuinely curious. What was it you were expecting to find in the box set?

Being an homage to the OD&D rules of 1974 by design it had less of everything, not to mention at the time it was published the game was still in its playtest phase. The Collector's Edition was a "stopgap" measure so that the Trolls had something available at Gen Con.

In any event, after eight years I don't think there are many copies left in the warehouse, if any.

Traveller wrote:The Collector's Edition was a "stopgap" measure so that the Trolls had something available at Gen Con.

In any event, after eight years I don't think there are many copies left in the warehouse, if any.

But, the Collector's Edition white box is perfectly playable as is. I play right out of the box in one campaign.

BTW, there are copies of the Collector's Edition available. The Trolls had them at GenCon this year, though as I understand it there are not many of them left.

~O

Omote wrote:

Traveller wrote:The Collector's Edition was a "stopgap" measure so that the Trolls had something available at Gen Con.

In any event, after eight years I don't think there are many copies left in the warehouse, if any.

But, the Collector's Edition white box is perfectly playable as is. I play right out of the box in one campaign.

BTW, there are copies of the Collector's Edition available. The Trolls had them at GenCon this year, though as I understand it there are not many of them left.

Agreed. The white box set is quite playable, and is sometimes a great diversion when I get tired of too many details in my game. Kind of nice to have a "basic class, basic race" type option.

I saw them at GenCon but since I already have two sets I passed on them. They are still out there, however.

Traveller wrote:I'm genuinely curious. What was it you were expecting to find in the box set?

A complete refrence list of spells would have been nice if such a thing was included in the text. Although having the ranges, durations and etc stripped makes it of limited usefulness. I also was unsure if the classes had simply been physically reduced by minimizing fluff or stripping out higher levels, versus eliminating some classes entirely.

I had no knowledge of the origin as to the "why" the box set was created, though I did of course recognize it as a a something in the vein of OD&D.

It deffinetly looks playable in it's own right.

@Omote, Finarvyn: I never said the Collector's Edition wasn't playable, so I don't know where you guys are coming from. Unless of course you've misread my statement that the lack of range, duration, and saving throw information makes the spells less useful as something else entirely.

I haven't misread your post at all. I'm simply promoting the fact that the White Box is play-ready, and fun, regardless of details that do not appear in this version versus the big-book versions of C&C. I'm a promoter of the Collector's Edition. That's what I do.

~O

Meh...took your post the wrong way. Sorry.

No applogy neccessary. Game on!

~O

Like Omote, I was just springboarding off of your statements and agreeing that it was quite playable already. I hadn't read your post as negative at all.

Before the Trolls had come out with C&C Condensed I considered taking the PDF copies of the Collector's Edition that I have, extracting the text, and revamping the first two books into a single book, either letter-sized or digest-sized. Unfortunately I don't know how much need there is for such a book now, especially with C&C Condensed filling the role of starter product.

However, the thought of it would be cool, if only to show how little actually is needed to run the system.

It's a cool idea, Traveller. There are many times when I yearn for the days when there were rulebooks that were little pamphlets and you didn't need many rules at all in order to play. What you describe is very minimalistic and could be a lot of fun to use as the core rules for a campaign.

finarvyn wrote:It's a cool idea, Traveller. There are many times when I yearn for the days when there were rulebooks that were little pamphlets and you didn't need many rules at all in order to play. What you describe is very minimalistic and could be a lot of fun to use as the core rules for a campaign.

While I agree with you and Traveller, my two cents is that even with the two books of C&C, the rules inside are actually very few. I'm not a crunch guy by any stretch (my recent gaming table practices notwithstanding) but I think the C&C PHB hits a pretty good spot in terms of quantity of rules. I do agree, though, that even less than what's in the books are actually needed. I guess since I was in 3.5-land when I made my way to C&C, the rules are light in comparison. Since I don't have any background with OD&D, aside from playing in a few games in the past (I've never run it), I don't have the same frame of reference. But I can imagine, from what experience I do have, that those LBBs made for some interesting campaigning!

Exactly. The beauty of the Collector's Edition was that it showed just how little was necessary to run the game, as the first two books combined were only 70 digest-sized pages or so. You of course were missing a few things as noted above, and there were no encumbrance rules not to mention rules on starting coin, but most of that stuff was expected to have a liberal dose of handwavium applied to it.

If I were to create a basic ruleset today, I wouldn't have to add much to it. Other than incorporating errata there are some things I would address in the Collector's Edition: encumbrance, spell stats (duration, range, saving throws), and possibly spell resistance for monsters. Realistically, that isn't much.