Poison CL?

[Snoring Rock]

Ok, so the poison types: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, etc., do not have CL's assigned. What are they? Or is the determined by level of manufacturer?

[Arduin]

In CKG pg. 136 (Poison Handle Trap) I found this: "The target will need to make a saving throw vs. CL 3 type III poison."

So, looks like the Roman numeral Type is also the CL...

[Snoring Rock]

Arduin, that makes sense to me. I just figure it would have been in the assassin section of the PHB or in some other location dealing with poison. I see the high prices and the more potent stuff and wonder if a poison can be made that has a high CL but not always have the DEATH save attached. And, that being the case, then CL 6 is as powerful as poison gets? That leaves me scratching my head.

[serleran]

Type does not equate directly to the CL. The Type simply relates what effects it has, the CL how hard to resist said effects. You can have a CL 1 Type VI poison, for example, or you can have a CL 20 Type I. The difference being that the former will kill you if you don't make the "easy" save and the latter will most definitely make you hallucinate (think of it as a type of powerful narcotic, perhaps.) The two things (type and CL) are wholly separate aspects of the poison.

The CL is set by the CK, unless the poison is made by the assassin and then it is the character's level. If you allow poisons to be purchased, I would probably rate the CL for said thing between 6 - 15. More powerful types (4+) would have lower save difficulties because, if you fail it, you get slammed harder for it.

[Snoring Rock]

That makes even more sense to me. That is what I have been doing. I just started kind of wondering. You know, the siege engine just kind of runs is all huh? I like it! My players do not however!

[Arduin]

Thanks serleran. That makes sense.

[Lurker]

Thanks serleran. That makes sense.

Rgr on that, thanks. You know I always thought the type was also the CL (and was always annoyed by it). Now that I've been enlightened ... I'm going to have a lot of fun with all kinds of poison combinations

[Lord Dynel]

The CL is set by the CK, unless the poison is made by the assassin and then it is the character's level. If you allow poisons to be purchased, I would probably rate the CL for said thing between 6 - 15. More powerful types (4+) would have lower save difficulties because, if you fail it, you get slammed harder for it.

QFT!

This is how I've handled it in the past. Like other obstacles or hazards, which would (to me) include traps and spells, the CL is set by the creator. When it's a bought or found poison, I just assign a number to it, and that's usually relative to what the PC paid for it or the danger they faced to find it.

[serleran]

One other minor point -- CL of monster poison, at least that produced naturally by the thing such as, say, a scorpion or venomous snake, is generally the monster's HD; should the monster use crafted poisons (like a drow elf), the Castle Keeper can make the CL whatever he desires, but I would tend to make it between HD +/- 3.

In using / purchasing monster-based poisons, at least in my games, the maximum CL when creating the poison is limited to HD +3. I do this because the poison can only be purified so far, enhanced to a certain degree; if you want a more powerful poison of a given type, find a more potent source for it. And for the record, in my games, herb / mineral poisons can range dramatically in CL from 1 - 20, but you have to be capable of matching its cap to get that high (be of sufficient level to create a CL 20 poison, if the source can be used for such.)

I once posted a table on this kind of thing, including the extraction difficulties and variable costs. Wonder if I can find it again.