magic weapons questions

[shadowspawn]

I have a few question on the Javelin of Lightning and the Dwarven Thrower. First what challenge level should the Dex save be made at? My thought was the maker of the item is at least level 9. The range description of the hammer was a little odd. It seems the max distance is 30' although a normal hammer has a max distance of 60'.

Thanks!

[Treebore]

For the Javelin? Yeah, CL 9 is what I would do, and I actually have, put it at as well. I just recently had to do this because the party faced an NPC who had the Javelins, but they killed him quick.

As for the hammer I treat that as 30 per range increment, for max range of 90 at -4 to hit. So makes it a bit better. In fact, my M&T says that is a range increment. Plus, only the Light hammer can be thrown, the Heavy Warhammer has no range. So this is clearly and awesome Warhammer in comparison.

[shadowspawn]

If thrown by a dwarf, the hammer gains the ability to return to its owner. It can be hurled up to a distance of
30’. When hurled, it deals an extra 2d8 points of damage against giants or an extra 1d8 points of damage
against any other target. Unless obstructed, it always returns to its owner.

I'm inclined to say its range is 30' but treat it as short range and not allow it to be thrown further.

[Treebore]

Ah, yes. For some reason I looked at the Hammer of Thunderbolts. I say your right, it can only be thrown 30', as well as returns to its owner, when a dwarf. Since a Warhammer cannot normally be thrown I'd say that is a great bonus.

[serleran]

A melee weapon that can be thrown and returned means it can use Extra Attack...

Your usual hammer to 60' distance can be thrown, and then lost.

[Lord Dynel]

Since it has only one listed range, it could be ruled that the dwarven thrower follows the normal convention of listed weapon ranges, thus 30' is short, 60' medium, and 90' long range. Being one of the best magical weapons could afford it that extra range, in my opinion. Looking at editions of AD&D and D&D to see how they did it yields some interesting results.

BECMI: There are no throwers, but a returning warhammer exists (though no range given). A regular war hammer can not be thrown.
1e: It has a range of 60' but says nothing else. Even if this is the only range increment there is, it's twice as far as long range for a normal hammer (1/2/3).
2e: Hammers have the 1/2/3 range increment. The dwarven thrower has a remarkable 180' (!) range.
3.x: The thrower has a 30' range increment, or a max range of 150'. A light hammer has a range increment of 20' or a max range of 100' (at five range increments).

I know, I know, this isn't D&D. But a lot can be learned and many rules can be understood by looking back at the roots.

In every instance above, the thrower has a longer maximum range than a non-magical hammer (light or war varieties).

In C&C, the warhammer cannot be thrown. So, perhaps the 30' range is the maximum range. It does say, in it's description, that it can be thrown "up to" 30', so I can see that logic. But that would also denote that 30' is its maximum range and that it can be further extrapolated that the dwarven thrower follows the 10/20/30 increments with the appropriate penalties for range. I remember a similar discussion a little while ago about giants and boulder hurling, and this same logic was applied there. It made sense then, and it makes sense now.

As for me, the 30/60/90 ranges made more sense to me, until I remembered the giant discussion. Since the wording's the same, I would follow the 10/20/30 range logic. Either way, I would apply range penalties.

As far as the javelin of lightning, I agree with that 9th level is the minimum caster level for the item.

[Treebore]

I've actually done that a few times with C&C magic items and spells, and even monsters.

For my own game I'd probably go the 30' increment interpretation, but maybe not, since with the Hammer of Thunderbolts they specified it was a range increment, and didn't with the Thrower. Plus being able to throw something 30' that normally can't be thrown at all, then have it return to you, is still pretty darn good, and cool, and a major edge over a non magical Warhammer.

I mean, try throwing an 8 pound object at something at just 10 feet with accuracy.

[Lurker]

I've actually done that a few times with C&C magic items and spells, and even monsters.

....

I mean, try throwing an 8 pound object at something at just 10 feet with accuracy.

Especially if you are a dwarf with those little stubby arms!

Sorry, I couldn't resist, and it sounded sooo funny in my head, but I admit that I'm running on 4 1/2 hours sleep from last night and only a little more from Sunday night (one of my little ones has pneumonia and hasn't slept well the last few nights

Pointing out that a normal war hammer can't be thrown goes a long way to make the 10/20/30 sound right to me. Plus throwing said 8 lbs out to 90 ft is pushing it.

Now I have see guys throw tomahawks a good 40+ ft but to me that would be more representative of a "light" hammer than a war hammer.