Troll Lord Games

One of my A-series players is an assassin/mage. He's been wondering about the possibility of a ranged death attack with a magic missle. It sounds plausible, except that mm is only possible with somatic and verbal gestures. This would make the target aware of the assassin's attack. That said, would it be possible if the assassin were (for example) in a tree, studying the target for three rounds. At that distance, the target might not hear the caster speaking.

Nope. You can't aim for a specific body location with that spell.

I would say no as well.

i would offer two ideas. i am trying to become a more kinder and gentler CK lately and am trying to say yes instead of no (thanks savage worlds).

1. make him roll a to-hit/called shot at a -4. if the to hit roll succeeds, then allow the death attack. if the roll fails, then normal damage.

2. allow a bonus to the victim on the death attack save since its a ranged spell say a +4.

Often once players are on the receiving end of one of their brilliant ideas, they tend to drop overpowered insta kill attempts.

Arduin wrote:Often once players are on the receiving end of one of their brilliant ideas, they tend to drop overpowered insta kill attempts.

Yep. This even works in 3E. I had a player do up the "Whirlwind 10 foot reach chain of Death" build
with their Fighter. He was kick butt and loved it. Then I had a group of 6 mercenaries whom all had the same "feat build". He was all ticked off when I took the whole party down. So was the rest of the players. Then he said the line I was waiting for. "It was so unfair to use that build against them!" I gave them the evil DM smile and said, "Its your build. What your character can do the rest of the game world can do. Unlike you, I am not limited to just one character with any given build. I can have 6, 10, or 300 of them if I want."

I never saw an "uber build" after that.

mordrene wrote:i would offer two ideas. i am trying to become a more kinder and gentler CK lately and am trying to say yes instead of no (thanks savage worlds).

1. make him roll a to-hit/called shot at a -4. if the to hit roll succeeds, then allow the death attack. if the roll fails, then normal damage.

2. allow a bonus to the victim on the death attack save since its a ranged spell say a +4.

+1. A fair and reasonable ruling, IMO.

I'd say no, only because I don't allow mixing of abilities in my multiclass rules. The character could do the Death Attack or the magic missile, not both.

R-

redwullf wrote:

mordrene wrote:i would offer two ideas. i am trying to become a more kinder and gentler CK lately and am trying to say yes instead of no (thanks savage worlds).

1. make him roll a to-hit/called shot at a -4. if the to hit roll succeeds, then allow the death attack. if the roll fails, then normal damage.

2. allow a bonus to the victim on the death attack save since its a ranged spell say a +4.

+1. A fair and reasonable ruling, IMO.

thanks redwullf.

i would also give a +1 to treebore. whats good for the party can be good for the CK

Treebore wrote:

Arduin wrote: I am not limited to just one character with any given build. I can have 6, 10, or 300 of them if I want."

I never saw an "uber build" after that.

Yep, a handful of magic missile, insta-death wielding kobolds would be hilarious.

Arduin wrote:
Yep, a handful of magic missile, insta-death wielding kobolds would be hilarious.

Rgr on that,

& tree, one of the few times I ever ran a 3.5 game, I had a player min max along the same line. after a few combats that he just waded through I decided to do what you did (except only with 3ish NPCs not six) and boy was he mad when they focused on him while the cannon fodder held off the rest of the party. Moped the floor with him, and them went after the rest of the party, who RAN AWAY!!!! They learned their lesson and then decided to go back to AD&D v2.

Hehe, funny story Lurker!

As far as something like this goes, I'd rule that if there was an attack roll involved with the spell (I notice there's not as many in C&C as there is in, say, 3.5 for example) then it would be possible. Kind of like what Arduin said - if you can't aim (which I translate to, "make an attack roll") then there's no way to hit a precise location.

There are numerous reasons this would not work, but if you want to let it happen, got for it. After all, who is going to not notice the caster standing there staring for at least 3 rounds, still get a surprise attack, and do so with a spell? The odds are so stacked against it that it might as well be "impossible," but that does not mean it cannot be tried.

Lord Dynel wrote:Hehe, funny story Lurker!

As far as something like this goes, I'd rule that if there was an attack roll involved with the spell (I notice there's not as many in C&C as there is in, say, 3.5 for example) then it would be possible.

That would be a logical dividing line for this type of action. I.E. Ya can't go for a aimed shot with Burning Hands.

This might be helpful to the discussion on Magic Missile

C&C PHB, 4th Printing, page 91 wrote:A missile of magical energy flies from the caster's hand and unerringly strikes its target. The Missile deals 1d4+1 points of damage. As long as the caster can see the target and all the targets are in a 25 foot diameter area, the missile will hit. Specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out.

For every two levels of experience past first level, the caster gains an additional missile. The caster has two at 3rd level, three at 5th level, four at 7th level, and so on. If the caster shoots multiple missiles, the caster can have them strike a single creature or several different creatures. The caster must designate targets before rolling for damage or SR.

Initially, I'd be inclined to rule no on using this with a death attack because no parts can be singled out. I'd be more inclined to allow Acid Arrow as that requires a ranged touch attack to hit the target. That being said, if this was something a player wanted to research as a variation of the spell Magic Missile, that might be worthwhile. As it would incur a significant cost both in terms of money, time and adventuring.
For what ever target spell - Acid Arrow, etc. I'd have to add in the Combat Maneuver "Called Shot" from the CKG which is -8 to hit and Auto-Crit. In this case, skip the Death Attack and make it Death Attack.

One final note, it might be fun to allow them to try a Magic Missile Death Attack as they do work on the research for this spell, using the Randomly Landed Blows from the CKG. For a Humanoid that would give them a roughly 1 in 8 chance to hit. As the spell became more well known though, as I'm sure the Assassins Guild would be most interested in this type of research, the PC would face similar attacks by would be rival assassins.

Oh, and I do like the idea of kobold shamans death attacking with silenced magic missiles... I've got to have a whole tribe of these bastards now.

TheMetal1 wrote:Initially, I'd be inclined to rule no on using this with a death attack because no parts can be singled out. I'd be more inclined to allow Acid Arrow as that requires a ranged touch attack to hit the target.

The more I look at what the Assassin Death attack actually is, the less inclined I am to allow this kind of thing. The assassin is targeting vital internal organs for the most part. Spells that aren't ripping into the body but are hitting the surface probably would be a poor choice for insta kills...

I'm also in the "no" camp. Though if one were to research/create a spell specifically for such a purpose I may consider allowing that within reason.