Paladin rule I am trying out.

[Treebore]

My sons Paladin finally made level 9 tonight. I was looking at hsi smite evil, and looking at his xp requirements.

I decided Smite Evil SUCKS!!

So I am modifying it to be like the Rangers ability.

He has to select a race that is over all evil, or an organization (such as a religion) that is known to be evil. Against such creatures (he chose vreatures/servants of Unklar) he gets his CHA bonus to attacks (thank the RPG gods it doesn't go by his modifier to his checks!) and the +1 damage/level bonus.

The Paladin gets a new one to chose every 2 levels from now on. I have already allowed the Ranger to chose a new enemy every 3 levels after 6th. So the Ranger who made 9th level just got his second favored enemy.

If anyone is interested in my opinion on how this plays let me know.

As it is I think its going to be balanced well enough. He chose Unklar, but he is about to go against the Frost giants in the Against the Giants series, so it will be a while before he even gets to fight Unklars forces again.

[serleran]

I'd say go for it, but if he doesn't get to use it, why bother changing it?

[Treebore]

Because he had the choice now, and knows that Unklar is going to be on ongoing evil he will have to fight. Since he doesn't know when he will fight the forces of Unklar again he thought he would choose that now, rather than say, Frost Giants.

Smite Evil, as its written, can only be used once a day. Not a very big help if your in a battle against hundred, or thousands, of evil minions. Plus I am thinking about reconstructing the Paladins xp requirements, I am startig to think he is paying way to much in XP's for powers that are so limited in use. I consider the Priest and Druid more powerful with their spells alone. Let alone wildshaping, wearing armor, etc...

BtH is a very significiant power, but not one to justify the Paladin paying so much. Yeah, he gets detect evil unlimited, and protection from evil is pretty powerful, immunity to normal diseases is nice, but they are not game breaking or seriously, or even moderately powerful, when taken in the context of the whole campaign.

How often in a given day does the paladin use detect evil? The most the Paladin in my game has used it in one gaming day is 3. How often has his immunity to disease kept him from catching a disease in his first 9 levels of play? Zero. How many times has his immunity to fear helped him or his compatriots since 6th level? Zero. How many times has he even attempted to turn undead? 4 times. 2 successfully.

How many times has he used hsi lay on hands ability? 6 times in 9 levels of play. His cure disease? Once, on a sick peasant child. Only because I put it in there as an RP experience to feel good about.

So a Paladin may have a lot fo powers, but the only power he has gotten a lot of use oout of is his aura of protection, specifically the +2 to his AC against evil. Not once has the aura been needed to protect him against evil casters or other planar creatures. Not because he hasn't fought them, but he attacked the other planar creatures, and spells haven't been targeted at him, usually the druid/runemark, ranger, and thief get nailed with spells.

So what is my point? Most of the Paladins powers are so little used as to be worth almost nothing to have. However he pays a ton in XP's.

I can see it with the Ranger, the damage bonus and the Favored Enemy, are very powerful. Especially in my campaign. Plus his other class abilities have been heavily used. His survival skill, his slow/neutralize poison skill has been used almost 10 times.

So I am seriously thinking of cutting back the Paladins xp requirements. Not a whole lot, how much will also be determined by what I do to the Rangers xp requirements.

[Jyrdan Fairblade]

Interesting idea. I haven't had any paladins in C&C, so I haven't had a chance to see Smite Evil in action.

Since you consider the paladins abilities to be over-rated, what about diversifying the smiting ability, rather than decreasing the XP requirements?

For example, what if Smite Evil was more a form of divine grace, so that the bonus could be applied to abilty checks and whatnot relating to the nasties in question, not just for offensive purposes. Heck, maybe even use it as a temp AC bonus.

[Dristram]

Treebore wrote:
My sons Paladin finally made level 9 tonight. I was looking at hsi smite evil, and looking at his xp requirements.

I decided Smite Evil SUCKS!!

Have you ever played the 1st Ed. paladin? The x.p. requirements are similar and there is no ability like smite evil. Why I'm saying this is to me, paladins were a cool class to play before Wizards added the smite evil to them, which C&C transferred over. That said, I will agree that the smite evil ability frustrated me in 3e and I was disapointed to see it carried over into C&C.

Quote:
So I am modifying it to be like the Rangers ability.

Additionally, the favored enemy ability frustrated me because it can be very limiting and end up being unused unless the campaign is designed otherwise. And to me, the creature of the favored enemy ability is something that should be gained through the character's experience rather than chosen by the player. I would make a requirement that the race chosen needs to be the race that the ranger had the most experience dealing with.

Anywhoo...back to the smite ability. How about changing it to a spell-like effect that can be done once per day and lasts a number of rounds equal to the paladin's level?

And additionally, if your son's paladin ends up dealing with a specific type of evil creature on a regular basis, go ahead and give him a favored enemy type ability to show the epic conflict he's had with those creatures. But give it as a CK gift rather than a class ability that he chooses the creature.

[irda ranger]

If anyone knows how to subsribe to threads withouth making a "fake" post, please let me know.

I like the idea of making "Smite Evil" like the Ranger's ability. Consider that "borrowed."
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[Treebore]

My son who plays the Ranger (I have two sons, one plays a Ranger, the other plays the Paladin, my daughter plays the Druid/Runemark, my wife the thief) Did select his favored enemy on character history. Ogres, because they killed his father when he was a little boy, plus he had been fighting them.

My son playing the Paladin did similiar things. He knows the history of Unklar and they have played through the Blacktooth and Slag Heap modules. So he chose the evil people that serve Unklar as his favored enemy.

As it stands now I allow the Ranger to select an additional favored enemy every 3 levels (6, 9, 12, 15, 18), and I am going to allow the Paladin to do it every two levels (because his xp's are substantially higher, if I reduce the xp's I'll increase the levels required.)

[BASH MAN]

I am surprised that the smite evil enemy has to be so specific. I would think: giants, or undead, or goblinoids, or aberrations would be specific enough. As for a Paladin, though, I would think that Fiends (demons and devils) would be the obvious first choice. Yes, 9th level characters can and will be able to fight demons. There are plenty of demons and devils in the Goodman Games mods I have worked on for C&C.
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[Witterquick]

It is a small "house rule" that there arent' any fiends, but with no paladins in the campaign either, it isn't exactly a hindrance.
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[jamesmishler]

I've dropped a preview of a work in progress, the Paladin of Mitra, in the Wilderlands Player's section, here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... ames#20314

Some bits of it might be interesting to folks who think paladins are a bit weak for the eeps...
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[Treebore]

BASH MAN wrote:
I am surprised that the smite evil enemy has to be so specific. I would think: giants, or undead, or goblinoids, or aberrations would be specific enough. As for a Paladin, though, I would think that Fiends (demons and devils) would be the obvious first choice. Yes, 9th level characters can and will be able to fight demons. There are plenty of demons and devils in the Goodman Games mods I have worked on for C&C.

He could have chosen a specific race of giants, such as hill, frost, and fire.

However the forces of Unklar are varied. All kinds of races and creatures serve Unklar. So even though it is limited to "servants of Unklar", it works against all servants, irregardless of race, or even actual alignment. If your not evil, but still serve the evil Unklar, you get the Paladins Gods wrath.

So even lawful Neutral servants of Unklar better fear the justice of a paladins blade.

I haven't pulled in demons and devils yet. I am saving that for the "Void" part of the campaign.

[Treebore]

jamesmishler wrote:
I've dropped a preview of a work in progress, the Paladin of Mitra, in the Wilderlands Player's section, here:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... ames#20314

Some bits of it might be interesting to folks who think paladins are a bit weak for the eeps...

Wow! That is a Paladin that kicks evils butt!!