Troll Lord Games

Ok, I figure I can get lots of views on this one. Does anyone use 3e spells in C&C? If so how do you convert them? Is it balanced? How do you do it in your game? Any guidance would be great.

Cut all bonuses in half, or more, at a minimum and I would never allow "true strike" or whatever that BS spell is that guarantees a hit. Otherwise, damage should be fine to leave as-is for the most part, since C&C has few, if any, caps on it. I sometimes move a spell around level-wise, but that's often because I think they're borked.

Its been so long since a Player wanted a 3E spell I don't recall how I did it. Basically it is a matter of making the best judgement call you can. So in general compare it to the spells in C&C of the same level. Does its "power" fit in with the power of the other spells of that level? How does duration compare? Range? Area of Effect?

So yeah, just compare, make your best judgement call, and reserve the right to tweak it further after you see it in action a few times.

It shouldn't be too hard since most of the spells in C&C are pulled from 3E.

Snoring Rock wrote:Ok, I figure I can get lots of views on this one. Doesa anyone use 3e spells in C&C?

PC's can research whatever they want in my game. So, sure.

Snoring Rock wrote:If so how do you convert them?

By comparing to existing spells at same level.

Snoring Rock wrote:Is it balanced? How do you do it in your game? Ant guidance would be great.

Just do it exactly like you'd do it if a player wanted his char to research new spells. If you follow that path, you'll do okay.

So, I have this adventure written in 3e; and the lich has spels that for the most part are the same level and name/effect as C&C. There are a few however, like "extended cloudkill" and "flaming sphere" that are not in the list in C&C. There is also "baleful polymorph". Isnt that like "polymorph other" but something they would not desire, or is that different? I need to dust off my 3e books.

I mean, if I can find "like" spells in C&C I will. But in order to save flavor, I would be willing to convert some 3e spells and really throw the party for a lop at the same time.....wow, what the heck was that?

There's no formula. Or, if there is, I don't (and wouldn't) use it. Just rule it how you see fit. Do a write up, sure. But in the end, you have to be happy with its final outcome. Since I loathe (and totally disagree with) illusionist healing, I've done away with them. Looking for a suitable replacement (and keeping to a similar concept), I decided that I would use false life (a 3e spell) as a replacement for the various cure spells. This is how my C&C version turned out.

BRAGGADOCIO
Illusionist 2
CT 1
R Touch
D 1 min.
SV Wisdom negates (see text)
SR yes
Comp V,S,M

The caster fills the target with false encouragement, tricking him or her into a misguided state of well being. The target is granted 1d10 temporary hit points which last until lost or until the end of the spell's duration. These temporary hit points should be noted separately by the Castle Keeper and are always lost first. When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.

A target is allowed a wisdom saving throw disbelieve the effect, gaining no temporary hit points. A willing target will often believe the caster's words (and forego the saving throw) in order to benefit from the spell's deceptive effect.

The material component of this spell is a piece of dried flesh.

I wanted to be similar to a healing effect, but I wanted there to be a chance to "go away" before they got knocked off. The deception of being healed, instead of actually being healed. This is the direction I hoped the Trolls had gone instead of actually healing...but I digress.

Anyway, I changed the d20 spell to reflect what I wanted it to do. Since healing spells in C&C don't add level, I didn't add level to this spell. In d20, the spell is personal, and lasts a long time. In my C&C version, I have it a targeted spell and it only lasts a minute.

I use D20 spells pretty much as Serl suggested except I kept True Strike and cut the bonus to +10. It works well for me but, I have also incorporated a few D20 elements into my game so there isn't as much converting. I have thought about working up a document that converts the SRD spells to C&C but don't know if there is enough interest.

Somewhere on the past threads, there is a similar question whereon I posted a link to the 70-80 3e spells that I converted over to C&C.

Snoring Rock wrote:Ok, I figure I can get lots of views on this one. Does anyone use 3e spells in C&C? If so how do you convert them? Is it balanced? How do you do it in your game? Any guidance would be great.

I stick with C&C.

I have converted a few 3.X spells over to C&C. Since then, I have learned my lesson. I try not to directly covert spells over from 3.X to C&C now. I learned my lesson. Specifically, I learned my lesson from converting spells over from the v3.5 Spell Compendium. I was hesitant at first, but the players really wanted some of those spells.

My feeling is that most v3.5 spells from WOTC books are simply a different mechanical increases in stats, abilities, or combat bonuses. How boring they became! So all you have in many of those books are different spells to let you succeed in ways characters were not designed to succeed. Sure, I can see some of those types of spells, but not so many. After a while, all the cleric spells became ways to increase characters of all types to combat masters. Yuuuuuck. Talk about lack of imagination.

My advice, do not copy the spells directly over from 3.X to C&C. If you do, of course reduce the bonuses by half (or more).. If you do convert over spells, may I suggest using spells from the Relics & Rituals series produced by White Wolf / Sword & Sorcery and Necromancer Games. While there were many spells in that series to increase combat effectiveness, it was not like the Spell Compendium, or many of the v3.5 Splatbooks. Many of those spells had effects that broadened the spectrum of spells, had many varied effects, and were just not about being "uber" (goober).

~O

I dusted off my old 3.x and Pathfinder books last night, and looked up the spells in question. I compared C&C spells on a case by case, side by side level. Then I looked at the spells I was considering and looked at the damage, affects, range, you name it. I am now of the opinion that you cannot use 3.x spells in my game of C&C.

Flaming sphere as a 2nd level 3.x spell RAW would equate to a 5th level spell or higher damage -- damage up against a C&C spell. It is like taking a Model T Ford motor and installing it in Hoover vacuum cleaner. Something does not fit. The entire mechanic is just foreign and different. Not a good idea.

As I convert this adventure, I am sticking to C&C spells. Thanks for the advise fellas!

Yeah, Rock, if C&C versions exist I'd use those over any d20 version. If there's not a C&C version of said spell, think about replacing the d20 spell with a C&C spell of the same type (offensive, defensive, utility). I wouldn't convert unless it was necessary, and even then you'll most likely have to adjust it to suit the C&C power level (like you saw in your comparison).

If I want to convert a 3e spell, I first look to see if there is an equivalent 1st or 2nd ed spell and just use it as is. 1e and 2e spells work just fine in C&C.

R-

Rigon wrote:If I want to convert a 3e spell, I first look to see if there is an equivalent 1st or 2nd ed spell and just use it as is. 1e and 2e spells work just fine in C&C.

R-

Yeah, you still likely need to convert casting times, durations, and area of effects, but the basic assumptions of spells in 1E and 2E have certainly seemed to fall in line with C&C much better, just like the monsters do. Might as well mention magic items too.

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There's some nice spells in there Go0g! I shall use some of them. Thank you.

~O

No problem. I didn't convert any spells that were already a C&C spell (obviously) and there were others that were redundant and/or didn't work within the framework of C&C, so those were not converted either.

Nice Todd!

I think conversions is like Serl said: half bonuses, and in C&C there's a simpler list of ranges too.