Troll Lord Games

I used to use a grid battlemat for d20, mainly 'cause it was a no-brainer. It's funny to look back at 3rd Edition and see that it was kind of set up for non-grid play with the option for grids. 3.5 really drove it home, though. It did for my group, for sure. After its release, we shortly went to the grid mat. We survived through 3.0 without it, but also with our merge into 3.5, we jumped into Star Wars d20, and a few other derivatives that lent itself to grids. Even my C&C games, so far (my mini-arcs and such, not my full blown campaign which is still in planning) have been on a grid.

Now, with Edge of the Empire, I have finally getting my player away from the grid permanently. I started to towards the end of my 3.5 campaign, only drawing out battles on the grid (whereas before I drew the whole stinkin' map). And now that I got them away from the grid, I don't think I'll ever go back! Now, I did went to the craft store and bought a large piece of marine vinyl, and I use that to draw more intricate/confusing scenarios, but I think that's going to be the extent of it. And now that I'm weening them off the grid for at least one game, I think I can get that to translate to every game we play. Getting those imagination muscles flexing again, after so long an atrophy, is quite a chore!

But for C&C...what are your preferences? And why?

I use a grid for pretty much all of my C&C combats. Many of my players have grown attached to moving themselves around on the grid, and as long as the rules aren't too complex, I'm happy to ablige. I also use the grid for another reason: it slows the C&C game down a bit (for me that is a good thing). I think many of my players are OBSESSED with getting as much done in a session as possible. I mean, they streak from plot point to plot point, and only slow down to roleplay from time to time. I actually got behind as a CK in my current RARe campaign. The players wanted to push the game forward, and fast. I believe they have their own agendas, and want to get to higher level play quickly. With that happening, I had moved to playing most of our battles on the grid to slow the game down just a bit.

~O

We use some minis or sketches to get an idea of what is going on and who is where. After D20's over reliance on grids and minis I pretty much do not want to go that route in C&C.

I used to use a battlemap with some dry erase markers for battles but now will do so only if I can't get away with doing without it.

Playing Pathfinder has burned me out of miniature battles for a while I think.

I grid for combats because its always best to be reasonably clear as to where everyone is situated. You can ask my players, I am not about being all precise. I am more like hand grenades, "close enough".

I use a grid on a raised platform in the middle of two 6 foot tables. Three players on each side. and me at the head. I have a huge collection of minis as well as a few dungeon dressings I like to use. I agree that too many fiddly rules for the grid is unappealing. I am burnt on attacks of opportunity and flanking postions, and the entire rules-heavy thing. We use the grid for battle and for close exploration in dungeons and the like.

I don't use a grid or miniatures in RPG gaming. I don't want little Napoleons at the table. We reserve their use for board games.

However, if I could afford the several hundreds of thousands of $$$ it would take, I'd build 3d versions of whatever is being explored and then we'd use minis... it'd be like the old days with GI Joes in sand castles.

I use grids for all of my online games. It makes it easier for me to be able to see everything and with the mapping/gaming programs out there, why not use something to make my job easier. However, for any face to face games I run, I usually only use a grid for combats. Once again, mainly for my benefit and not so much for the players.

R-

Good point Rigollo... if I were to play online, I would probably use a grid just to make sure the players knew where they were in relation to everything else as it is easy to misunderstand me.

Back in the day we had to map everything out on a grid in exact detail and use miniatures. When it came to in-the-head mapping and formations, all the players were more or less in synch, but the GM was on another planet.

Now I prefer 100% mind's eye, or if absolutely necessary, a quickly sketched map on blank paper. Assuming the GM is up to it, I like a fast "go with the flow" style game.

Omote wrote:I use a grid for pretty much all of my C&C combats. Many of my players have grown attached to moving themselves around on the grid, and as long as the rules aren't too complex, I'm happy to ablige. I also use the grid for another reason: it slows the C&C game down a bit (for me that is a good thing). I think many of my players are OBSESSED with getting as much done in a session as possible. I mean, they streak from plot point to plot point, and only slow down to roleplay from time to time. I actually got behind as a CK in my current RARe campaign. The players wanted to push the game forward, and fast. I believe they have their own agendas, and want to get to higher level play quickly. With that happening, I had moved to playing most of our battles on the grid to slow the game down just a bit.

~O

That's an interesting take Omote, and one I hadn't thought about. Using the mat for combat to purposely slowing combat down is an intriguing concept.

I use a grid as it speeds combat up.

Arduin wrote:I use a grid as it speeds combat up.

That's a new one to me, hoss!

Seriously, though, I'm not sure I've heard anyone say that. In my personal experience and being told by others, a grid usually slows down combat. I'd love for you to expound on your statement!

Lord Dynel wrote:

Arduin wrote:I use a grid as it speeds combat up.

That's a new one to me, hoss!

Seriously, though, I'm not sure I've heard anyone say that. In my personal experience and being told by others, a grid usually slows down combat. I'd love for you to expound on your statement!

Simple. A picture of a complex battle is worth a thousand word description from the GM. And, saves a thousand questions from the players. = much time saved.

Arduin wrote:

Lord Dynel wrote:

Arduin wrote:I use a grid as it speeds combat up.

That's a new one to me, hoss!

Seriously, though, I'm not sure I've heard anyone say that. In my personal experience and being told by others, a grid usually slows down combat. I'd love for you to expound on your statement!

Simple. A picture of a complex battle is worth a thousand word description from the GM. And, saves a thousand questions from the players. = much time saved.

That's good to hear, then. I'm in the other boat - a grid has only slowed down combat for me. In d20 games, it was dreadfully slow. I can see Omote's point that a grid can slow an otherwise fast game, such as C&C, down...which could be a good thing. But, hey, if it speeds up your combat that's wonderful!

I like the grid for the same reason. Sometimes a combat is better explained with a 3d picture. It keeps some questions that would slow things down, from even surfacing. And, I have amassed a huge collection of minis, which are in very nice and easy organized drawers next to the table that I can get to (I thank my wife for that). And the players love moving their pieces about on the table. It reduces arguments about things that werte left un-said. And last......it is fun for a room full geeks.

Lord Dynel wrote: I can see Omote's point that a grid can slow an otherwise fast game, such as C&C, down...which could be a good thing. But, hey, if it speeds up your combat that's wonderful!

If a visual aid slows down a game. It isn't used properly. I'd hate to play in such a game too.

Arduin wrote:If a visual aid slows down a game. It isn't used properly. I'd hate to play in such a game too.

I think it's more a case of a visual aid synching with or fighting against the style of game. With the type of game I like to run, grid & minis would likely draw the players' attention to details I don't care about, and the setup and movement messes with my flow.

Just Jeff wrote:

Arduin wrote:If a visual aid slows down a game. It isn't used properly. I'd hate to play in such a game too.

I think it's more a case of a visual aid synching with or fighting against the style of game. With the type of game I like to run, grid & minis would likely draw the players' attention to details I don't care about, and the setup and movement messes with my flow.

Hmm, the only details it shows is relative positions. Not sure how those details wouldn't something to care about when you have weapon ranges, spell ranges and movement rates...

Arduin wrote:Hmm, the only details it shows is relative positions. Not sure how those details wouldn't something to care about when you have weapon ranges, spell ranges and movement rates...

Sounds like a lot of pesky numbers for things that are just guidelines.

Yeah, I am fine with "guesstimates". I don't really care if it is precisely 5 squares. IF it is actually 4 or 6, I don't really care. All I care about is the "Big picture" of relative position and approximate distance. So I do quick counts, and if I am off by one or two, I don't care. Since I always decide in the players favor, always giving them the benefit of the doubt, its no big deal. Heck, even on Initiative ties between PC's and monsters, I give it to the PC's.

Just Jeff wrote:

Arduin wrote:Hmm, the only details it shows is relative positions. Not sure how those details wouldn't something to care about when you have weapon ranges, spell ranges and movement rates...

Sounds like a lot of pesky numbers for things that are just guidelines.

I like my bows with a 700 yard range.

We shoud take pictures of our game rooms/areas if we have them and share them here. I havew a corner of the basement (dungeon). It is nice having an area dedicated to my game.

Snoring Rock wrote:We shoud take pictures of our game rooms/areas if we have them and share them here. I havew a corner of the basement (dungeon). It is nice having an area dedicated to my game.

This is a picture of my gaming area, which is the front/living room of my house. With three kids, I lost my gaming and computer rooms long time ago. So the front room became the den/gaming area/computer room/study.

This is taken from my GM's position, standing. Behind the picture, there's another shelf with gaming stuff, plus I have another in my bedroom with rarely used games on it. The stuff on the shelves up here is stuff I'll probably use more often. And notice the non-gridded marine vinyl that someone recommended...redwulff, if I recall correctly (thanks again, btw!). It's already been a nice addition to my gaming!

So, here is my table from the CK's point of view. It is a platform with a sheet of grid paper off of a roll. That is covered by a large piece of plaxiglass. I can use wet-erase or dry-erase markers on it. Looks like the giant is about to break throught the portcullis; the party better come up with a plan quick!

Hee is the CK's table from the player's point of view.

I tend to use a grid when it suits me. Larger battles, battles where position is particularly important, etc. I like using them to give the players an idea where things are relative to them, but I also like that the C&C combat system is streamlined and speedy enough that it is by no means a necessity, unlike some other systems.

But other than that, when I'm at home at least, I'm a huge props whore. Music, images, handouts, physical objects to show off... I'm all about that.