Troll Lord Games

Hi everybody, fellow gamers!
Just a simple question: imagine a character armed with a bow: seeing the enemies closing distance she decides to take her sword and shield.
According to you, how long does it take, in game terms?
And how long does it take if a character armed with sword and shield wants to embrace and fire arrows with a bow?
I usually rule that in both cases it takes one round to "change weapons": in this round the character can't do anything else, except perhaps a small movement.
What do you think?
Many thanks,
Galannor

The CK's I play under and myself usually have it account for your attack action or move action to switch out. So if you don't need to move, just use your move action to do the switching out. If you have to move, then you use your attack action to switch.

If the person wants to literally drop the bow and draw a sword? I'd wouldn't care as the GM and wouldn't penalize, time wise, the PC.

If you want to drop a sword and use your bow? Well, you probably have to string it. 1 round for this one.

You've pretty much got it right, Galannor. The section, "Non-Lethal and Multiple Actions" on page 130 (of the 5th print) says, "Drawing a sword would not take a round." That logic could be extended to say "any weapon," in my opinion. I'd allow drawing a weapon and attacking, or drawing a weapon and moving, no problem. Or, if you need to sheathe/put away a weapon you already have drawn then that would take up the rest of the round (instead of moving or attacking). So, yeah, I think you're good.

Arduin wrote:If the person wants to literally drop the bow and draw a sword? I'd wouldn't care as the GM and wouldn't penalize, time wise, the PC.

If you want to drop a sword and use your bow? Well, you probably have to string it. 1 round for this one.

Sword AND shield, in his example. So even if they do drop the bow, getting that shield out and slipped onto your arm and then draw the sword takes a bit of time.

If it was just draw a sword after dropping the bow, yeah, I'd probably do it your way.

Treebore wrote:

Arduin wrote:If the person wants to literally drop the bow and draw a sword? I'd wouldn't care as the GM and wouldn't penalize, time wise, the PC.

If you want to drop a sword and use your bow? Well, you probably have to string it. 1 round for this one.

Sword AND shield, in his example. So even if they do drop the bow, getting that shield out and slipped onto your arm and then draw the sword takes a bit of time.

If it was just draw a sword after dropping the bow, yeah, I'd probably do it your way.

That's true...I forgot about the shield as well. But, you know what? The nice thing about C&C is that there aren't move, partial, standard, full-round, swift, immediate, or any other designated action-types in a round. A little bit past the quote from my last post is this bit of information: "As a rule of thumb, simply think of how long such an action would take in real life. If it takes just a couple of seconds to perform a non-combat action, then the character should be allowed another action, be it combat or non-combat in nature. The Castle Keeper can, and on occasion should, impose an initiative penalty for some of these actions."

So in the end, Galannor, I'd still say you're good. A round is ten seconds long. If you feel okay with allowing a player put away a sword and a shield, then drawing a bow (or vice-versa), then that's what matters. If you feel there should be a penalty of some sort, then toss him a -2 penalty on his initiative that round (or the next, depending on how you run your combat). It's all good.

C&C does actually specify a move and attack action. So we just assume each eats up roughly 5 seconds, and that's why we handle switching out weapons the way we do. If we think it takes about 5 seconds, you can sacrifice your move action to do it, or your attack action if moving is of more importance to you that round.

We do the same thing for pulling things out of packs, sacks, pouches and bags like Holy Water, Oil Vials, Potions, Scrolls, etc... Just for Potions its a full round action to pull it out and drink it. For scrolls you can pull it out the round before using one of your actions, so its ready to go on the round you cast a spell from it.

Treebore wrote:C&C does actually specify a move and attack action. So we just assume each eats up roughly 5 seconds, and that's why we handle switching out weapons the way we do. If we think it takes about 5 seconds, you can sacrifice your move action to do it, or your attack action if moving is of more importance to you that round.

That's true, but I don't put it in the same category as 3.5 and "here's a table of the 37 things you can do as a 'standard action' and here's the 24 things you can do as a 'move action' table. Oh, and here's a table for 'swift actions,' too..." I've always liked that while C&C still has them, technically, they've gone away from the terminology. You won't find the terms "move action," "standard action," etc. in the book at all. It harkens back to an earlier era of D&D, where there was a list of things you can do in a round, and the DM/GM/CK made up/adjudicated the rest.

I will agree that my brain sometimes makes that same assumption, Tree, of "3e-ifying" combat. But you hit it spot on, sir - just wing it...but do so with a bit of sense. If you can do a couple of things in a 10 second span, call it done and move on.

I'd agree if the bow is already strung, it's faster.
and that a strapped on shield would be slower than, say, a buckler where you just hold the handle.

But Yeah, I'd be okay with either switch if they're not moving.
Isn't the guideline you can move up to your move rate and attack? or move twice your move rate? So how's about ditch one of those (the move or the attack) and still attack?

Is that what we agreed on?
(I'm no help) LOL

Crossbow is a better choice, at least for the initial switch-over. Plus, if you had to, you could bludgeon with it as a club.

If you interpret the buckler as in the d20 srd, it is strapped to the forearm and confers no penalty to bow use. Presumably if you wanted you could use your other hand to fight with a one handed weapon and still grip your bow, though it starts to get little silly; the mobility of the bow/buckler arm would probably be reduced and there'd be a good chance of having the bow smacked out of your hand.

Nate's not reading this, I hope .

Going by the fact that a combat round is 10 seconds long, and the specific passage Lord Dynel quoted on page 130, the character is allowed to switch out his weapons and shield as long as they were hanging on his belt and in a scabbard, and still move 1/2 and attack. The way I see it, to drop current weapon loadout, and quickly pull easily accessible weapons in 5 seconds is pretty easy. With the other 5 seconds you have plenty of time to move 10-15 feet (1/2 movment) and attack.

~O

Omote wrote:Going by the fact that a combat round is 10 seconds long, and the specific passage Lord Dynel quoted on page 130, the character is allowed to switch out his weapons and shield as long as they were hanging on his belt and in a scabbard, and still move 1/2 and attack. The way I see it, to drop current weapon loadout, and quickly pull easily accessible weapons in 5 seconds is pretty easy. With the other 5 seconds you have plenty of time to move 10-15 feet (1/2 movment) and attack.

~O

Yeah, what this guy here says.

Treebore wrote:The CK's I play under and myself usually have it account for your attack action or move action to switch out. So if you don't need to move, just use your move action to do the switching out. If you have to move, then you use your attack action to switch.

This.

Either move and fight, or switch out and fight. Or switch out and move.

ThrorII wrote:

Treebore wrote:The CK's I play under and myself usually have it account for your attack action or move action to switch out. So if you don't need to move, just use your move action to do the switching out. If you have to move, then you use your attack action to switch.

This.

Either move and fight, or switch out and fight. Or switch out and move.

Fortunately, I'm able to walk/jog and draw a weapon at the same time. So, I figure that PC's in my game are at least as able as my broken down self...

An attack allows up to 1/2 movement. As with using an item, if the weapon is readily accessible it can be drawn and used in the same round.

Arduin wrote:If the person wants to literally drop the bow and draw a sword? I'd wouldn't care as the GM and wouldn't penalize, time wise, the PC.

If you want to drop a sword and use your bow? Well, you probably have to string it. 1 round for this one.

+1

For me, only if there's some reason to think the bow is not strung, which is rare in exploration scenarios. So, generally if the PC is willing to drop one weapon on the ground to get another, I don't make it take up an action in the round.

If the PC is engaged in melee and wants to swap weapons, I might not let the player attack the same round on the theory the PC isn't just standing there drawing a sword; the PC is trying to get the sword out while simultaneously avoiding attacks. It might take 10 seconds to safely draw the sword.