Troll Lord Games

OK, I expressed in the chat with Steve, Todd and others that I have a problem with the players in my party amassing too many powerful magical items. For the whole campaign (started last June) I have rolled randomly for all treasure and held to those results. Some badass items have been distributed including: Robe of the Archmagi, Broom of Flying, Horn of Blasting, Ring of X-Ray vision, just to name a few. Anyway other than a couple of occurences the party has been able to slaughter much of what I hvae thrown at them, every combat encounter there is always at least one player with close to full HP. They are getting a ego complex and I need to put them in thier place. One way to do this is to get ride of most of their magical items. The other is to kick their a$$es throughly.

The party has been hot on the heels of Deitbold von Hiemer (AoBTR) who besides being the leader of Ludenshein is also a high priest of Unklar. Thier journey has led them through a series of portals that has led them into an ancient temple of Unklar on a rocky island in the middle of the ocean. In the temple are great hives where larges numbers of Ungern are being "grown" for a full scale onslaught of Outremere. Also there is a Scout for an ancient order of Eldritch goblins who is working out a deal with Heimer to support the Ungern army with an army of goblins in support of the invasion. They plan on taking over Outremere and using it as a base of operations to bring Unklar bake to the world and start a new age of winter dark. (Pretty epic stuff I know, but this is what I like to run).

Ok, history lesson aside here is the force inside the temple the party awaits (after wading through a bunch of Ungern and goblins first):

Dietbold von Hiemer LE Human Cleric lvl 10

Patron Diety: Unklar

Str 16

Dex 10

Con 1 3

Wis 18

Int 1 3

Cha 14

Primes: Wis, Cha, Con

HP: 72

AC: 20

Equipment: Mace of Terror +2, Full Plate +2 of Spell Resistance 15, Ring of Regeneration, Rod of Lordly Might

Spells: 0, Detect Good X2, Light X3.

1st" Protection from Good, Sanctuary, Cause Fear, Cure Light Wounds, Shield of Faith

2nd: Darkness X2, Hold Person, Silence X2

3rd: Bestow Curse, Cause Disease, Prayer, Cure Serious Wounds

4th: Neutralize Poison, Healing Circle, Water Walk

5th: Flame Strike, True Seeing

Harg'Nah Gromgagh CE Eldritch Goblin Ranger, lvl 12

Str 1 3

Dex 18

Con 16

Wis 1 3

Int 13

Cha 10

Primes: Str, Wis

HP 89

AC 23

Euipment: Ring of Spell Turning, Horn of Breaking (in the codex, destroys magic items), Javelin of Lightning X2, +3 Composite Shortbow, +3 Flaming Short Sword, +1 Adamantite Breastplate

Unique Edlritch Goblin ability: Can cast Fly spell at will as a 10th level wizard.

Favored Enemy: Dwarves

These are the two bosses and they will be supported by the following henchman (no red-shirts here). Note my Ungern stats are unique, I made them much tougher than the ones in Slag Heap.

8 Ungern, 3hd (d8), HP 24, 24, 22, 22, 20, 20, 18, 18. AC 18. SR 4. Equipment: Full Plate, Great Bow (2d8 damage, can fire 2 arrows per round), great sword, 10 arrows, Pavis.

16 goblins, 1 hd (d6), all have max hp. They are equipped with 2 javelins each and a short sword.

4 Eldritch Goblin Shock Troops

Eldritch Goblin 1: 2nd lvl Fighter, HP 18, AC, 17 stats Str 16, Dex 1 3, Con 1 3, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10. Primes Str, Con. Weapon Specilization Battleaxe. Equipment: chainmail, battleaxe +1, Large Shield, short sword.

Special Ability: able to cast Barkskin 2/day as 4th lvl caster

Edlritch Goblin 2: 2nd lvl Fighter, HP 20, AC, 18 stats Str 18, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10. Primes Str, Con. Weapon Specilization Bearded Axe. Equipment: Full plate, Bearded axe +1, light mace.

Special Ability: Able to cast shield 3/day as 3rd lvl caster

Eldritch Goblin 3: 1st lvl Fighter, HP 10, AC, 18 stats Str 13, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10. Primes Str, Con. Weapon Specilization Composite Shortbow. Equipment: chainmail, Composite shortbow +1, 2 daggers. Special Ability: Able to cast spider climb 2/day as 3rd lvl caster.

Eldritch Goblin 4: 3nd lvl Fighter, HP 29, AC, 19 stats Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10. Primes Str, Int. Weapon Specilization Broadsword. Equipment: chainmail +1, Broadword +1, Large Shield, Warhammer.

Special Ability: Can cast Fireball 2/day as a 5th level cater.

The battle will take place in a large chamber in the temple, 180ftx100ft. The goblins will surround the players in a skirmish while the ungern form a shield wall with thier Pavis, raining arrows on the party (no cornern with firendly fire). Hiemer will harass the party with his spells and Rod of Lordly Might, Harg'Nah will immediatley fly to the top of the ceiling (about 120ft) and rain down arrows on the party getting his comabt marauder bonus against them (evil heh), plus a blast or two (no more than two, I'm not entirely heartless) from the Horn of Breaking. If the party can dispatch the ungern and ordinary goblins Hiemer and Hag'Nah will escape through 2 secret passages behind the altar in the large room (they have more business left in the campaign, plus the party can't get their magical items) the Eldritch goblin super team then moves in to beat the crap out of the already bloodied party.

Tell me what you think, is it too evil?
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

I could give you a much better feedback if I knew how bad A.. your players characters are.

Lets see the party consists as follows:

Jaylock (Elf) 5th lv Wizard/6th lv cleric 59 HP (has rolled like a champ) (he was able to play two xtra seesion has 15K more xp than rest of party). AC 23 (Robe of Arch Magi), Ring of invisibility, necklace of adaptation, +2 Runehammer (5 SR, stacks with archmagic, total SR 14), horn of blasting and all of the spells a 5th level wizard and 6th level cleric has.

Stel Rigos 7th lvl Human Monk (NG) HP 115, AC 20, bracers of defense +2, amulet of natural armor +4, ring of force shield, +3 sonic large mace (+1d6 sonic damage), broom of flying.

Raith von Rithick 8th lv Human Assasin (LE), HP 36, AC 17, leather armor +2, +2 Fayduster (shortword has %15 chance to stun opponent on hit), +1 Composite longbow, +2 dagger of returning, ring of x-ray vision, rign of feather fall.

Murtrued 7th lvl Half-Elf (elf dominant) Knight (LN). AC 22, HP 60, +2 Full plate, +2 Bastard sword, +1 heavy lance, large steel shield, heavy warhorse with chainmail barding and horseshoes of speed.

Plus and NPC that is critical to plotline (but can die in this battle)

Zhull of the Hawk 4th lvl bard/ 3rd lvl barbarian. HP 84, AC 18, +3 featheredged battle axe, iron wood club (+2 natural to hit and damage), +2 chain shirt, Amulet of the Hawk (item I created give wearer +1 to AC, +1 to saves and allows them to polymorph in hawk 3/day). Plus he can dual wield because of a system I created to determine handedness.

Roll a d20 and d10 simultaneously, if the d20 result is higher than the d10, the character is right handed, if d10 is higher left handed and if both the same # the character is ambidextrous and gets two attacks at highest bth.

Also the party has two bags of holding and a handy haversack stufed to the gills with potions the assasin stole after he murdered an apotehcary owner (cool roleplaying and I dont mind giving away potions, they are one time use) potions include several healing potions, some potions of random polymorph (uses reincarnation table in PHB), giants strength and remove poison.

AS you can see this is a fairly formidable party without the magic items, with them they are nearly invinceable. However I think this encounter might make them cry a bit, at least thats the goal.
_________________
CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

At the entrance of the room, place a disjoining glyph, triggered by the passing of anything non-goblinoid. When the party crosses in, every magic item they own must save or be destroyed.

If you want to be really mean.

I think the horn of breaking will do a fine job, I want them to see the severity of the threat of the horned one. Lately they scoff at any of his people, I want them to get their butts kicked real good and realize I can bring down the hammer if I want (no TPK, just some thrown dice).
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

You really want to get rid of magic items and not kill them? It will tick them off, and expect them to hunt him across the face, and depths, of the world, but have a thief rob them while they are in night camp routine. With a potion of invisibility (improved) or dose of dust of dissappearance and something like boots of elvinkind. A 10th level thief should be good enough.

Then have him hand the stuff, or most of it, over to the clergy of Unklar and have them spread the stuff across the continents to various temples and hideaways. If they really want their stuff back then you have a great hook to send them nearly anywhere you want them to go. Plus everything will be personal if they react even close to the way the gaming group I did this to reacted.

Those bags, backpacks, pieces of armor, shields, and weapons can dissappear quickly. Rings would be a very difficult roll, at least a +7 to the TN.

As for the encounter I think it is rather weak. I would throw in another decent level priest, 6th or 7th level, and some more fighter types. Maybe change the Ranger to a favored enemy of human or elves, especially elves to take care of that spellcaster rather quick.

As it is with some good spell useage and devastating melee attacks (especially if they use the potions of giant STR) they will wipe your NPC party out in 2 to 4 rounds, depending on how good the NPC saving throws go. Especially if the cleric or 12th level ranger get held, webbed, or something similiar. If that happens, 2 rounds.

Consider a 10th to 12th level wizard as well.

Make sure to spread them out so that the wiz/cleric can't kill or severely weaken too many of them with a couple of fireballs. He will hit the ungern with the fireballs behind their wall if he is smart. The SR will make this less effective but only if he rolls bad and you roll well.

Make sure that fireball casting Eld. Goblin uses the fireballs ASAP.

Hmmm. If the PC's roll badly and you catch them bunched up with the fireballs and some hold persons from the cleric, maybe you don't need that wizard. If they roll real bad on their saves and the SR fails to protect that wiz/Cleric from a spell or two, it could go bad, maybe even a TPK, or better yet a party capture and then be sacrificed to Unklar.

Since your not wanting to really risk a TPK you probably have a reasonably painful and challenging encounter. I would change that Ranger to hating elves, though, and nail that cleric/wiz with an arrow or two with the +12 damage attached. More if you want to take him negative and really drive home how easily he could be killed by the right enemy.

hope I have helped.

Thanks for the input, I don't want a TPK, Im not that kind of CK, I want to bloddy them a bit and take thier egos down a notch. I could have 3 or 4 rd level Unklar Clerics running around healing folks (give them wands of cure serious wounds maybe? 5 charges each) that should make the encounter just a bit more interesting.
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

Ok I've added a few more baddies to the mix. I'm on a late night insomnia run and I have used it to work on my game for this weekend adn on the clakkity t-shirt design. Anyway here are the added BBEG (big bad evil guys)

First the Goblin ranger will have Elves as favorite enemy (the magic user player is so smug, lets see what happens when I hit him with and arrow for 25 damage)

8 more ungern with identical equipment and HP. I love these monsters, they are like ogres with the military tactics of a Roman legion.

4 Acolytes of Unklar. 4th lvl human clerics (LE)

All have the following stats: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10

HP 30 AC 18. Equipment full plate, +1 large mace, wand of cure serious wounds with 5 charges.

Spells: O: First aid X4 1st: Cure Light wounds x3, Bless 2nd: Hold Person x2

Eldritch Goblin Wizard 8th lvl (part of shock troop unit)

HP 25 AC 16 Str 9, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 9. Primes Int, Dex. Equipment Bracers of Defense +3, Wand of Animate Dead (25 Charges), Dagger +1.

Spells: 0: Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Message

1st: Magic Missle x3, Shield, Spider Climb

2nd: Ray of Enfeeblement, Invisibility, Levitate, Acid Arrow

3rd: Dispel magic, Haste, Lightning Boltx2

4th: Ice Storm, Wall of Fire

Special Eldritch Goblin Ability: SR 10

OK, I hope this doesn't TPK, but the plan is to have the 2nd group of ungern flank flank the party and hail down more arrows before engaging with close combat. The Acolytes will run around buffing up the Eldritch Goblins and keep them in the battle, possibly casting a hold person or two on the party. The Goblin wizard will first split the party with a wall of fire, and then work on the two groups with ice strom, lightining bolt. He will raise and fallen peons back into zombies to further harass the party.

Does anyone think this is too much?
_________________
CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

If you need futher ideas. here are some I ran in my campaign:

The characters met exact doubles of themselves in an extra-dimensional pit fight for the right to a shard of a major artifact. FUN FUN battle that had thier egos and hopes dashed on the rocks! The hardest battle in the campaign.

They have gone up against periphery members of something called The Society, a group of Leveled 'Super' dopplegangers. Well, the society captured thier thief (the player was in on it). He neutralized all their potions over a week, replaced their healing rod with a fake, and generally screwed them. When they went to have an encounter, they found all their stuff did not work. HAHAHAHA!! Then in the city, they started being attacked by and invisible creature that would even strike them in their home.....They attributed it all to their arch-nemises's henchman assassin!! I could go on, but their is the idea....

Why not just stick with the Super High Magic premise you have begun with and just keeping things going with an over the top funness.

Then, in your next campaign you can start by saying, "This will be more gritty, less magicky."

Completely tearing the carpet out from under the players is a good way to make them stand up and walk out on the game.

I say roll with it and keep the fun times going. (Just beef the heck out of your "end boss" encounters.)

Nelzie wrote:
Why not just stick with the Super High Magic premise you have begun with and just keeping things going with an over the top funness.

Over the top funness. I like this concept.
Brian Miller

Here's something that would allow you to go ballistic as a GM and still keep magic item count from getting out of control in your campaign.

A funny implementation that worked in my campaign was an adventurers guild "platinum membership" which included having high level wizards and priests teleport into the dungeon to ressurrect characters then bamph out at the end of the round they died or the begginging of the next round (not helping with the encounter). I charge an outrageous 2,000,000gp (1 mill when on sale) for the membership and give characters a "magic debt bag" (which teleports stuff back to the guild) to throw 1/2 of their magic items and valuables in as they go through dungeons, gradually paying off the debt (takes real years, if ever). Keeps the campaign from having too much money or magic items in circulation, and they still lose the con point from dying so they don't become carelessly aggressive.

Brian Miller

miller6 wrote:
Here's something that would allow you to go ballistic as a GM and still keep magic item count from getting out of control in your campaign.

A funny implementation that worked in my campaign was an adventurers guild "platinum membership" which included having high level wizards and priests teleport into the dungeon to ressurrect characters then bamph out at the end of the round they died or the begginging of the next round (not helping with the encounter). I charge an outrageous 2,000,000gp (1 mill when on sale) for the membership and give characters a "magic debt bag" (which teleports stuff back to the guild) to throw 1/2 of their magic items and valuables in as they go through dungeons, gradually paying off the debt (takes real years, if ever). Keeps the campaign from having too much money or magic items in circulation, and they still lose the con point from dying so they don't become carelessly aggressive.

Brian Miller

That's some over the top funness.

In my campaign world, the party will not be finding tons of magical items.

They may find some trinkets, but the real powerful items will come from them. In the form of Heroicly Imbued items. This is an extremely arbitrary system that I am working into the campaign to keep the characters from constantly swapping out equipment every other adventure.

A fighter that sticks consistently with a sword and has tales told of his prowess with the blade will find the blade givin him an extra edge. It may begin to act as a +1 magical blade (for all purposes), it might act as a +1 magical weapon (for all purposes) and gain an additional ability, like a bane to Goblinoids (if the Fighter just really hates Goblins and tends to always take Goblins out first and foremost in battles).

As the player progresses, so does his/her equipment. Bad guys have similar things going on for them.

Once an item's owner is gone, much of the power, if not all the power built up into an item is also gone/lost. Some power might remain if it was a great and well known hero or villain who still has stories told of his/her exploits.

For the most part though, magical items just grow on trees as in traditional FRPG worlds.

Nelzie,

That concept was used on me and my playing group in a Rokugan game and was actually pretty cool. The idea is in the Rokugan rules, BTW.

C. Kyle,

One way I play the Eldritch Goblyns, since they are immortal, is that they really do not like dying, so they are the first to run if things look bad. So if you find the encounter going badly for the PC's, but the bad guys appear to be beat up badly, you can have the E. Goblyns run for their valuable immortal lives. Especially if the party manages to kill several of them first.

Anyways, just thought I would mention a realistic way to help the party survive if the encounter does go bad for them.

As for taking their magic items, I assume you are playing with adults, right? Even my kids handle getting magic items destroyed or stolen and they are 10, 12, and 14. They know there is more where that came from.

Anyways, I hope you have players that can handle losing magic items.

My old group handled it pretty well and they were 15th level when they were robbed. This was in 2E. A thief threw in a dust of sneezing and choking, everyone made their saves as expected, but as they layed there coughing and hacking helplessly the thief walked through them with improved Invisibility stealing weapons, shields, wands, staves, magical bags, belts, etc... Then teleported away (they were robbed by a mage/thief who calls himselft "The Reaper").

They were angry, claimed I was "unfair" and other similiar things. So after I challenged them to show me one unfair thing I did that wasn't totally within even their own powers to do, they calmed down and decided to use their powers and remaining resources to hunt down this thief like a mad dog. Became a very good, fun, and intense campaign story arc.

Well I just plan on one blast from the horn of breaking, many of thier items should survive due to thier high power (and thus high saving throws) and just want to cut the fat. Good thinking about the E. Goblins, they would probably fight a bit then run, there are secret passages put in the room just for that. I post on Sunday to tell everyone how this encounter went.
_________________
CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

Give the eldritch goblins a means to summon stirges. You only need three, if played properly, and an entire party of six will be scared to death of the bastards.

You can also be very naughty and use an "eldritch barghest" which would simply be the same as an eldritch goblin, but having the feed and shapechanging abilities of the barghest, and would have Mental saves as Prime. This would be especially useful if it also had the class abilities of the rogue or assassin, and "joined" the party rather early as, say, hired help of some sort.

Serleran youare evil...I will probablly use this.
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

If you go the route of the "eldritch barghest," I recommend its natural spell abilities be something illusory, with improved invisibility and nondetection (perhaps as a ring, obviously laced with a detect magic foiling spell, so it appears very plain and completely worthless) as a high priority, as well as a spell such as ray of enfeeblement or even enervation, to weaken a threat before bringing in the kill. However, if you do the assassin route, instead of ray of enfeeblement (affects Strength), change to a ray of exhaustion (affects Constitution), because the death attack ability relies on it, making the creature far more powerful, and something to be greatly feared. On top of this, give him a "boggart" like power, through (again, nonmagical appearing, or possibly even an item that appears magical, but is confused in the strength and type so it cannot be immediately seen as being very useful) via his boots that give the ability to dimension door, or a limited teleport, as in he can "hop" to any place he can physically see.

It is possible this single creature takes the entire party out.

Oh... and yes, I am evil.

Haha, I think we should rename this thread to "Really cruel CKs."
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CK the CK
"My goddess touched me at an early age."

-Grikis Valmorgen, Paladin

The beginnings of my homebrew campaign world and info for my play by chat game:
http://kbdekker.googlepages.com/home

How did it go?
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I'll tell you what I do like though: a killer, a dyed-in-the-wool killer. Cold blooded, clean, methodical and thorough. ~Zorg