Troll Lord Games

Ok so I think 3.X and Pathfinder treat adamantine and mithral well. It is a great substance but as good at magical. How do you treat them? What kind of bonuses? I think the incredible +5 given to them by TLG is way over powered.

I need some ideas on this or I may go with 3.X on this.

Snoring Rock wrote:Ok so I think 3.X and Pathfinder treat adamantine and mithral well. It is a great substance but as good at magical. How do you treat them? What kind of bonuses? I think the incredible +5 given to them by TLG is way over powered.

I need some ideas on this or I may go with 3.X on this.

C&C gives adamantine a +4 I think. Anyway, I give adamantine a +1 and nothing for mithral. Mithral is 1/2 weight of good steal. But, to craft anything of a +4 you need mithral or adamantine and anything of a +5 must be adamantine (if a metal weapon/armour.)

I do it exactly like the book. These materials provide a natural, non-magical +4 or +5. Overpowered? In what terms? C&C chooses to make these items the creme of the crop, so I oblige. In my campaigns, these materials are exceedingly rare. If they do come up for purchase (not that they ever have) for Adamantine the cost modifier is x200 and for Mithril it's x300. Though this provides a mechanical means to determine the cost of an item, it does not attempt to "balance" these items against others. Using C&C's +4/+5 non-magical bonuses would make these items some of the most expensive in the game if you would want to compare them against other magical (weapon) items.

Heck, I want a +5 mithril bastard sword!

~O

If Mithril and Adamantine provide non-magical bonuses is there anything in the rules or your house rules that allow them to hit enemies requiring that +1 magical bonus?

Dracyian wrote:If Mithril and Adamantine provide non-magical bonuses is there anything in the rules or your house rules that allow them to hit enemies requiring that +1 magical bonus?

Not in my game.

I don't use either metal in my games and I certainly do not agree with the adjustments provided in the books.

Well, that is why I ask. I adjusted out price to work as not quite as good as magic, so both are cheaper for the same + bonus. In my world they cannot hit incorporeal creatures unless laced with magic. I like the +1 BtH/+1 damage and then I give the weapon the sunder ability (+2 vs. chain, scale and plate armors). For adamantine armor I give a damage reduction of 1 and for expert crafted another 1 for a total of 2 DR. In my game, the mithral is simply lighter and affords 1/2 the EV and imparts a +1 BtH, nothing more.

I was converting a Pathfinder adventure and found an adamantine weapon I wanted the party to have if they kill the big baddy. I was rethinking my stance on such materials. I am sticking with what I have. 3.X is too liberal with the stuff. I do not like the C&C +4/+5. I guess if it was not a substance that the dwarves mine for so much, I could leave it that rare. Then the problem is that once you find +4/+5 armor/weapons you want it to be affective vs. incorporeal and other critters hit only by magic. If not, what value does it have? At that level (being rare and all) you would need the magical dweomer.

Snoring Rock wrote:Well, that is why I ask. I adjusted out price to work as not quite as good as magic, so both are cheaper for the same + bonus. In my world they cannot hit incorporeal creatures unless laced with magic. I like the +1 BtH/+1 damage and then I give the weapon the sunder ability (+2 vs. chain, scale and plate armors). For adamantine armor I give a damage reduction of 1 and for expert crafted another 1 for a total of 2 DR. In my game, the mithral is simply lighter and affords 1/2 the EV and imparts a +1 BtH, nothing more.

I was converting a Pathfinder adventure and found an adamantine weapon I wanted the party to have if they kill the big baddy. I was rethinking my stance on such materials. I am sticking with what I have. 3.X is too liberal with the stuff. I do not like the C&C +4/+5. I guess if it was not a substance that the dwarves mine for so much, I could leave it that rare. Then the problem is that once you find +4/+5 armor/weapons you want it to be affective vs. incorporeal and other critters hit only by magic. If not, what value does it have? At that level (being rare and all) you would need the magical dweomer.

I'm not entirely sure how it works in the greyhawk campaign I play in because I am not running it, but I think my GM allows the magical bth bestowed upon a weapon made of adamantine to to be added to the damage also allowing it to hit the incorporeal but it gives no other bonuses being used itself. So a +1 sword gives +1 to everything and can hit anything with that requires a +1 magic weapon. Also it is treated stronger and sharper than any other metal and isn't affected by earth elementals

I only use a +1 to +3 bonuses in my games. The bonus only applies to dmg (not atk rolls). +1 = expert weapons, +2 = Adamantine, and +3 = Mithral. I also allow weapons with a +X bonus to hit incorporeals.

+1 for expertly crafted master level weapons, +2 for mithral weapons, double this vs silver affected creatures, and +3 for adamantium weapons that have an absurdly high save bonus vs damage just from the material itself. More than that needs to be obtained by magical enchantments or ritual crafting. They're also expensive as all hades (even a dragon hoard may not be enough to pay for a +5). I tend to run a mid to low level magic campaign...so magic isn't prevalent and most items are not easily obtained and other than potions or scrolls, almost never available for general purchase. This also means that the market for selling them is limited to high end merchants, nobility, or priestly orders (the ones that actually have cash to afford such things).

This also makes it highly likely that such items will have some sort of history to them, especially the enchanted versions which afford all sorts of opportunities for story hooks.

I go by the book. I have no problem with it, but I would guess that is because I have ran a fair number of 15th+ level games over the last few decades. If all I've ever ran were below 10th level such items would probably never even show up in my games.

I have a question. If special materials provide a non magical bonus of + X and then I get a magic version of the same weapon do the bonuses stack? One source being magical and the other being non magical? Can i have a +4 flaming adamantine sword which has a +4 magic bonus and a +4 non magic bonus awarding me a + 8 to atk and dmg?

Yes you can (by my estimate).

~O

I do not use either metal in my games.

In my game, both are usually masterworked products that give a +1 bonus to attack and damage due to their superior craftsmanship. Mithral has the advantage of being far lighter than other metals- approximately 1/3 for pure mithral, 1/2 for the more common mithral hybrids. It also will never rust or corrode.

Adamantine is not especially light (actually 1.5 times heavier than steel), but as a masterwork, it'll probably have that +1 to attack, and a weapon will always have a +3 to damage. Armour will grant a +3 bonus to AC on top of any magic, masterwork bonus (+1) and the normal armour bonus. Adamantine weapons cannot be sundered by nonmagical things, basically ever, and anyone able to wear adamantine armour will be damn near invulnerable to regular attacks. But while it is amazing, and usually crafted via magic, it is not in and of itself actually magical. It's, well, it's adamantium. Wolverine's claws aren't magic, so why should a sword made of the same material be?

So yeah, admantine is great if you can bear the weight. But ... if you've checked out the Monsters section lately and seen who the big villain of my campaign is, sometimes what you think is the best thing ever is actually the worst.

Ancalagon wrote:I do not use either metal in my games.

I find that ironic, because I do the exact opposite. I don't use magic weapons in my games. I use the metals. However, I also apply them differently. I only hand out a +3 bonus max and it only applies to dmg (however, as of late, I have been rethinking that approach as there are far less bonuses in cnc as opposed to dnd).

Oh, and I count mithril as "silvered" for purposes of fighting werecritters and I also allow (in the absence of magic weapons) silver weapons to harm etheral critters like ghouls, ghosts, and the like.

I figure the silver-bane attached to were-critters could be generalized to all supernatural critters which means that in my campaigns silver (mithril or otherwise) carries a special anti undead power like in Elder Scrolls.

jdizzy001 wrote:I have a question. If special materials provide a non magical bonus of + X and then I get a magic version of the same weapon do the bonuses stack? One source being magical and the other being non magical? Can i have a +4 flaming adamantine sword which has a +4 magic bonus and a +4 non magic bonus awarding me a + 8 to atk and dmg?

Uh, HELL no! Besides, they are not even the same type of bonus, meaning you don't get either one for similar reasons. So in my games, if you want it to be able to hit everything possible, you will need to get it enchanted with magical bonus ( +1 bonus per 3 levels of the caster). The sword would still be awesome, because it would still be +4 or +5 in non magical areas, such as inside anti magic shells, or other magic dead locations. Which would certainly make me happy with my favorite mage/cleric killing combo, an item with an Anti Magic Shell in it that I can invoke/create, then once I get close enough to nullify the spellcaster and all their magic casting abilities as well as all protections, I then have a Mithril or Adamantium sword to cut them down with all the faster.

After looking thru the t and m, I've concluded that the +4/5 provided by mithral and adamantine is not overpowered. Unless one plays a fighter or possesses a +3 in a str/dex stat, hitting high hd monsters is going to require high numbers on the d20 (by big I mean unmodified 13's and higher).