Movement

[Cooper]

Hey,

It states in the PHB Pg. 130, that a character can move half his/her movement and still get to attack (unless charging). The part that confuses me is that if you use greater movement than that, then it has three movement rates: Full move, double move (jog) or quadruple movement (run).

Why not just have the character move it's full movement and still get to attack. Then if they want to move further (with no attack, unless charging) have it just twice your movement?

The reason why I find it strange is that when given the choice to move more, the highest movement possible seems to only really be what counts (after all, you don't have to use all of that movement if you don't need it). When given a choice to move more without being able to attack, I find most players would opt for that higher number anyway, so why all the different choices? Am I missing something here?

Thanks in advance!

[Treebore]

I've never followed that rule. Since day one I have done it as full move and attack. To the point that I got so used to doing it that way that at Troll Con I had to be corrected.

[Arduin]

Why not just have the character move it's full movement and still get to attack. Then if they want to move further (with no attack, unless charging) have it just twice your movement?

Because a round is a finite amount of time. It should read that you can move for 1/2 of the round and still attack. There are only so many actions you can do in X period of time. That is why the rule exists.

[Cooper]

Because a round is a finite amount of time. It should read that you can move for 1/2 of the round and still attack. There are only so many actions you can do in X period of time. That is why the rule exists.

If you want to bring reality into the picture, moving that far (25 to 30 feet) and swinging a sword in 10 seconds is actually very possible.

But that is not the point of my post. I am confused why there is full movement, double movement or quadruple movement rates when there are no rules or benefits. For a full round of movement, all you really need to know is how far you can move. The rest is narration.

[Cooper]

I've never followed that rule. Since day one I have done it as full move and attack. To the point that I got so used to doing it that way that at Troll Con I had to be corrected.

Actually i plan on changing it to that (full move + attack or double move and no attack). It is not only easier to remember, but it will hardly unbalance the game (that is one of the many things I love about this game, btw: flexibility).

[Arduin]

If you want to bring reality into the picture, moving that far (25 to 30 feet) and swinging a sword in 10 seconds is actually very possible.

I'm taking about the rules as written. Not a House Rule of mine. If you have a problem with reality being in the rules, talk to the guys who wrote the PHB.

But that is not the point of my post. I am confused why there is full movement, double movement or quadruple movement rates when there are no rules or benefits. For a full round of movement, all you really need to know is how far you can move. The rest is narration.

Se pg. 130 PHB Movement in the combat round section. Also, see ALL Class descriptions regarding "Hiding" & Moving Silently". You have missed many rules regarding movement.

[Cooper]

Reality in a medieval fantasy game? That's rich lol

Yes, I did see the move silently rules and yet it still does not answer what the difference between full move, double move and quadruple move or than distances (because it deals with half movement).

I was just curious if there were different rules for full move, double move and quadruple move. Am I missing something in the book or just saying full move, jog or run just for description reasons?

[Cooper]

I take that back, it does give a -20 for double or quadruple movement during a silent move check.

[Arduin]

I take that back, it does give a -20 for double or quadruple movement during a silent move check.

See also Hide checks...

[Treebore]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little. So a "full" 20 feet works far better. Never mind what it does to Thieves in combat. Let alone a "short" thief.

[Arduin]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little.

Just Jog then. 20' is 1/2 round worth of Jog. Then attack. Solved.

[Cooper]

I take that back, it does give a -20 for double or quadruple movement during a silent move check.

See also Hide checks...

Thanks Arduin. Those two sections did pretty much answer my question.

Since I had not seen any rules for bonus/penalties that differentiate Jogging from Running (other than double vs. quadruple), I take it that it is just for description purposes (so if you have to move further than what is considered double movement, then you must be running).

I am most likely thinking to much about this (lol)

[Cooper]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little. So a "full" 20 feet works far better. Never mind what it does to Thieves in combat. Let alone a "short" thief.

If you are the CK, you could always change it to full move + action (or attack in this case) vs. double move with no attack. As long as that is an option to everyone, that will not unbalance the game at all.

That was part of the reason why I asked about all the modes of movement in case I was missing any special rules that could cause a problem in the future.

[Cooper]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little.

Just Jog then. 20' is 1/2 round worth of Jog. Then attack. Solved.

I thought in order to jog, you had to dedicate your whole turn that round to movement?

[Arduin]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little.

Just Jog then. 20' is 1/2 round worth of Jog. Then attack. Solved.

I thought in order to jog, you had to dedicate your whole turn that round to movement?

Yeah, technically if you jog for even 1' (12 inches) it takes you 10 seconds and that's all you can do. But, I don't allow insanity in my game*.




*Unless it is for RP purposes.

[Treebore]

I also don't like the rule because it really screws over the short races. 10 foot of movement in combat situations is just too little. So a "full" 20 feet works far better. Never mind what it does to Thieves in combat. Let alone a "short" thief.

If you are the KC, you could always change it to full move + action (or attack in this case) vs. double move with no attack. As long as that is an option to everyone, that will not unbalance the game at all.

That was part of the reason why I asked about all the modes of movement in case I was missing any special rules that could cause a problem in the future.

Which is why I have done full move + attack since day one.

[Lord Dynel]

I've always had issues wrapping my head around this. I'm finally getting around to working this out to make sense to me. This is what I'm thinking about doing.

Half move and attack (per rules)

Full move, no attack (per rules)

Charge (up to jogging movement, or x2), then attack with a +2 to attack and -4 penalty to AC (per rules)

Double move (jogging), no attack (per rules), with a -2 penalty to AC until next round.

Quadruple move (running), no attack (per rules), with a -4 penalty to AC until next round.

This is how I think I'm going to play it in my games. I think the AC penalty that comes with the increased movement (in my above house rule) represents the caution the character is throwing out the window in return for the extra movement. YMMV, of course.

[Arduin]

I think the AC penalty that comes with the increased movement (in my above house rule) represents the caution the character is throwing out the window in return for the extra movement. YMMV, of course.

I don't think that making someone who is sprinting, easier to hit with a missile weapon is too workable... Maybe confine it to the person the PC is running towards for melee weapons.

[Omote]

I actually like the rules as written as they provide a certain amount of tactical decisions that need to be made during combat. You could move half and attack, or move full and get into position. Of course, this doesn't matter if you are not using a grid for your battles.

~O

[Dracyian]

I actually like the rules as written as they provide a certain amount of tactical decisions that need to be made during combat. You could move half and attack, or move full and get into position. Of course, this doesn't matter if you are not using a grid for your battles.

~O

We don't use grids very often but John does a wonderful job at running the game as many of you know and lets us know how far roughly we are away and how far we can move in a round and whether or not we can launch an attack at the end our movement

[Fizz]

Charge (up to jogging movement, or x2), then attack with a +2 to attack and -4 penalty to AC (per rules)
Double move (jogging), no attack (per rules), with a -2 penalty to AC until next round.
Quadruple move (running), no attack (per rules), with a -4 penalty to AC until next round.

Are you applying these to melee attacks, or ranged attacks too? It would seem to me that ranged attacks should be more difficult against a moving target than a still one.

-Fizz

[Cooper]

I have now played in four different people's C&C game and to be honest movement and distance was never really that detailed anyway. If we used minis, it was more to know where people were in combat.

But for the day that I run this game, I have a page of custom rules that I am compiling (which is why this subject was asked).

That being said, I do like the 3.5 rule of using your move and attacking or forgo your attack and just do a double move (or for charging: double move with the AC penalty). I think easier is usually the best choice (realism sometimes gets in the way, especially in a medieval fantasy setting).

[Lord Dynel]

Charge (up to jogging movement, or x2), then attack with a +2 to attack and -4 penalty to AC (per rules)
Double move (jogging), no attack (per rules), with a -2 penalty to AC until next round.
Quadruple move (running), no attack (per rules), with a -4 penalty to AC until next round.

Are you applying these to melee attacks, or ranged attacks too? It would seem to me that ranged attacks should be more difficult against a moving target than a still one.

-Fizz

Well, initially I was considering the penalty against all attacks, but I suppose it does make sense to apply them to melee attacks only.

But part of me agrees with Omote, too, in that it does play into the tactical side of C&C combat. "Move half and attack" and "move full and get into position" has never been a question for me, personally, and I'd never allow a full move and attack in this game (nor would I allow the d20 method of "roll initiative then decide action" of combat rounds, either, but those are my opinions and not for everyone). I guess I never understood the jog and run actions. I mean, I understand them just fine...I guess I just feel that there should be differences between a regular move, a double move, and a quadruple move, other than just X, 2X and 4X movement.