Troll Lord Games

I can't seem to find any pictures of this thing; is it printed so that one side of the pages is the PH, and the other side is the M&T? I have several C&C PDFs, but for a hardcopy to read through this flip-book may be just what I'd like (even if it's not the purty 5th printing of the PH!).

The book is printed like a combined version of the PHB and the M&T. The flip book is sort of like a Rules Cyclopedia for C&C. However, the PHB is printed on one side as you would find in any standard book. With the M&T you flip this book over and it's the M&T printed just like any other normal book. When you look on the inside of the book where the PHB and the M&T come together, the last page of the PHB is right side up and the first page of the M&T is upside down. When you flip this book over the pages and the way you read any normal book are oriented correctly.

I do not think this book is still in print since the release of the color version of the PHB (5th printing).

~O

Yeah, it's both books back to back (and upside-down from one another). Once I was looking up a rule and one of my players thought I was making stuff up because he saw the back of the book upside-down.

It's very handy, though as a softcover mine hasn't held up as nicely as I'd like.

NNG has a few C&C flip books in stock for retail prices...
http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetai ... _GenreID_E_

~O

Aergraith wrote:... Once I was looking up a rule and one of my players thought I was making stuff up because he saw the back of the book upside-down.

that is FUNNY!

Omote wrote:NNG has a few C&C flip books in stock for retail prices...
http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetai ... _GenreID_E_

~O

That's exactly where I was looking A hardcover would be awesome, but for having both together softcover isn't bad; I have the 5th PH in PDF, and will eventually get "normal" hardcovers at some point, but for now I'm probably gonna go ahead and order the flip-book.

A hardcover omnibus of the PHB and M&T would be nice, so long as it didn't have the flip and was as close to error free as possible. Currently, that's not possible, but hopefully very soon it will be.

Oh if they ever Kickstart a new hardcover combo of PH & M&T to coincide with a new printing of M&T, my wallet will be ready.

A hardcover omnibus of the PHB and the M&T would be killer. I've been trying to convince TLG Steve of that for years. The combo book just doesn't seem to be in their philosophy for the C&C game. I actually heard the man convince a customer NOT to buy the M&T if he was only going to be a player and not CK. That's dedication to the CK craft at the cost of cash.

In my C&C groups, which consist of 14 players counting me, I think 10 or more of them want a combo PHB + M&T even though most of them will never CK. I do wish TLG would consider this possibility, even if it had to be a kickstarter project.

Oooh, could you imagine a full color PHB+M&T all in one book?! *tingles*

~O

Omote wrote:Oooh, could you imagine a full color PHB+M&T all in one book?! *tingles*

As a CK, I would like that, but not in color. The B&W version of the PHB is much better, IMO. I think Peter's art pops better and the color background of the pages makes it harder to read the text. Full color is the Devil.

I understand why a player would want the M&T, but it really has very little to offer a player other than the opportunity to memorize monster stats and a little info on creating magic items. Players should save their money.

Well I can understand C&C following AD&D in having a sep. book for items that players should maybe not know about (although cmon they're likely to own all the core volumes anyways), but as a long-time B/X fan I do like the all-in-one volume.

I will have to also cast my vote for the b&w printings as my preference as well. Although 5th PH has the superior logo and artwork, the color combo of the interior is too difficult for me to read as well.

If a Castle Keeper wants to allow variations on playable races, M&T can be of some use. Also, concerning familiars, conjurations and illusions of creatures. The book is not intended, necessarily, for players but it is by no means inconceivable to be useful to them in ways aside from raw stats. Then, I don't use it and I wrote it (well, some of it) as I prefer to make everything up as it happens so my PoV is askew. That, and I likes them "royalties."

Buttmonkey wrote:

Omote wrote:Oooh, could you imagine a full color PHB+M&T all in one book?! *tingles*

As a CK, I would like that, but not in color. The B&W version of the PHB is much better, IMO. I think Peter's art pops better and the color background of the pages makes it harder to read the text. Full color is the Devil.

I understand why a player would want the M&T, but it really has very little to offer a player other than the opportunity to memorize monster stats and a little info on creating magic items. Players should save their money.

I have to agree with this. I have come to find B&W art in game books more appealing than full-color. I think it has to do with the B&W look being one more thing that ties C&C to 1e AD&D. I tend to used my AD&D material right alongside my C&C material and it helps that they are so similar not only in play style but also in appearance.