Troll Lord Games

Ok, so how do most of you treat animal friendship as a spell? I have players, past and present that like to try it on every creature they see. "You see a rusty-red colored creature about 50 lbs. with antennae and compound eyes moving toward you". "Is it an animal?" "It is, is it, huh?" "I cast animal friendship". No, it is a rust monster!! You can be its friend! The spell stats with a feeding it. Who carried all of the possible foods for animals in their pack?

So then we begin the friendship with trying to command the animal to fight for us. Then we want it to deliver messages for us and carry our stuff. We want to take our friend-shipped wolf, badger or bear into a city or into a dungeon. Does anyone else have players who fixate on this one spell as the answer to everything? It is an unseen servant that carries stuff, opens doors, scratches our back, fights for us, acts as a meat shield......what a great spell!

Then when I put a kibosh on it, the whining starts. So I now enjoy killing animal companions in combat first. I have read the spell and reread the spell but some players just do not get it.

Grrrrr.....

Snoring Rock wrote:Ok, so how do most of you treat animal friendship as a spell?

As the spell states. It can be used on animals.

M&T Animal: An animal is a non-humanoid creature with a real-world equivalent.

What about making a distinct difference in your game between an animal or a beast?

Or what about attaching a seige check to the spell and making the challenge level equal to the hit die of the monster plus the hostility of it towards the players, and the intellignece level of the creature?

In Example (i'm making up stats) Lets give your rust monster 8 hit die, make him very hostile so will add 5 for that and make him semi intelligent so we add another 2 for that, and make it a charisma roll since that is the stat that we use to win over humans that makes it a 27 they need to hit just a thought

I like those ideas, but most times, if I give an inch, they take a league. I may have to get nasty about it next time. It is a 1st level spell and it will be treated that way. I think going forward that I will have the animal turn on them at the first sign of treating it like "charm animal".

They can be taught the tricks in the book, but that does not make a stork willing to enter a dungeon, or a badger willing to fight undead. It is my game, but I get tired of having to squash one over-step after another. I don't understand what it is about this one spell that my players get hung up on.

It's the nature of player to try and take advantage. I would point out that a the spell is intended to only work on TYPE: Animal so anything that is Beast or Magical Beast it auto fail. However in cast the spell they place themselves at risk since they basically try to make friends with it and give it a piece of food. Try that on a Rust Monster and you'll lose something for sure.

Also Druids should embrace a certain leveling of caring about their charges. Taking Stork into a dungeon is just nutz.

-Mike

Just curious, but how old are these players?

Snoring Rock wrote:I like those ideas, but most times, if I give an inch, they take a league. I may have to get nasty about it next time. It is a 1st level spell and it will be treated that way. I think going forward that I will have the animal turn on them at the first sign of treating it like "charm animal".

They can be taught the tricks in the book, but that does not make a stork willing to enter a dungeon, or a badger willing to fight undead. It is my game, but I get tired of having to squash one over-step after another. I don't understand what it is about this one spell that my players get hung up on.

If you read the spell closely, it is self limiting. For instance, if the Druid doesn't intend to be a FRIEND of the animal, the spell fails. If the Druid is casting the spell in order to obtain cannon fodder, that isn't being a friend. Would YOU consider me a friend if I wanted to to get you to like me for the purpose of using you to fight for me and possibly get killed? Hmmm....

Exactly. And one of them was an adult; did it back when we played Pathfinder, which I admit kind of begs for that kind of stuff. Everything is kind of over the top so abusing this may not be so bad. The others are younger and playing C&C. I just have to tell them the spell fails once they push the envelope. I wonder how much shenanigans happen in other's games over this spell.

I hate the spell for the same reasons. I had a druid PC befriend a wolf and try to take the wolf into the dungeon. I ruled the wolf made a run for it after one day under ground. The player seemed fairly pissed that I gimped his PC. I blame the Beastmaster movies.

I do remember during our last greyhawk campaign a druid trying to befriend a whale or larger sea creature and instead of befriending it he managed to put himself on the menu

Buttmonkey wrote:I hate the spell for the same reasons. I had a druid PC befriend a wolf and try to take the wolf into the dungeon. I ruled the wolf made a run for it after one day under ground. The player seemed fairly pissed that I gimped his PC. I blame the Beastmaster movies.

Well, it certainly makes the player want to read the spells before using them if the GM runs them correctly (like you did).

@snoringrock Thanks for the fun game at GenCon. The Saturday morning game of was our (my wife and I)game of our first GenCon ever...

On to post:
I think I see Animal Friendship as a roleplay opportunity. I know the phrase is overused, but this is a fantasy world. We have always had Druid players in our games. In 3.5, which is sorta like the Pathfinder stuff you described, there were litteral menageree of animals. That was kinda bad. But there were so many spells to boost animals size, strength etc. that I think that was the writers intent, however broken. Now the C&C PHB animal friendship spell is better written. It does not charm the animal. Befriended animals are one way a druid player roleplays their character. Most of the Druids in my campaigns have always picked wolves, dogs or great cats making them easier to train and more combative by nature. I definatley only let the spell work on animals. No beasts, monsters, etc. I always make them take time to train and use speak with animals. I think we strain over the "realism" of animals in a fantasy world. The average human would be no more willing to face a dragon or delve into the underdark for days than a typical animal. The are not "real" humans nor are the animals for that matter. Both dwell with monsters and such in a fantasy world and have adapted. Now the Druid player has to make sure they retain their animal's loyalty for them to stay in unusual situations. Steps like feeding and grooming are a must but also healing any wounds speedily. If my players want to keep animals with them they have to roleplay and work for it. Even taking pets (err.. friends) to town is a challenge. A psuedo-medieval/fantasy town would have many beasts in them whether in sideshows, carnivals or as guards for wealthy nobles. That being said, if an animal creates damage or injury the players are held liable, hence another opportunity for roleplay or bilk them out of their hard earned coin. Now I agree that an animal shouldn't be treated as a free secondary attack wielded indiscriminately. After all, if the players really want to take a 2 HD wolf into a dungeon and subject them to fireballs and similar hazzards so be it. We all have our own styles of play and as long as everyone enjoys it that is great. I like to give my players freedom to do the things they want but remember what they want will not always work out how them expect. After all how many times have those wishes gone really astray...Just my opinions. Sorry the long post guys this is fun.

All very true. I run my campaign very much in line with what you explain. So there is in fact some "giving" on my part as the CK. The problem come in where the players, not all of them mind you, begin to expect the animal companion to be more like a wizard's familiar. I allow the players with familiars much more latitude because they need to remember, it is their loss should the familiar get killed. But you are right on the friend part of this. It is a friend, not a slave. I don't know why this one sticks in my craw so much.

Good to see you at GenCon!

I am looking at the 5th printing of the PH, and it looks like the wording in it addresses most, if not all, of the problems you have been having with this spell.

Treebore wrote:I am looking at the 5th printing of the PH, and it looks like the wording in it addresses most, if not all, of the problems you have been having with this spell.

Correct