Troll Lord Games

I'm a newbie to C&C. Just got my books in the mail and looking forward to trying the system out with my group.
Are there tables that list the monsters by XP value so I can easily find monsters of appropriate level to challenge the group with?
Thanks!

C&C is not balanced so much by the mast like 3.x or Pathfinder. It is more old school in that regard. You have to get a feel for it, but I would start with using HD as the determinng factor and try matching your encounters by HD and then by number of PC's. So a good one would be if you have 4 PC's you would use 4 or 5 orcs. You could use 2 HD creatures but only 2 perhaps. A 3HD monster would need to be only one. As you get sme expereince you kind of get a feel for what your PC's can handle. But like I say, use HD as the determining factor. That rules BtH, saves, and Challenge Level so I use that, and it works great.

Snoring Rock wrote:C&C is not balanced so much by the mast like 3.x or Pathfinder. It is more old school in that regard. You have to get a feel for it, but I would start with using HD as the determinng factor and try matching your encounters by HD and then by number of PC's. So a good one would be if you have 4 PC's you would use 4 or 5 orcs. You could use 2 HD creatures but only 2 perhaps. A 3HD monster would need to be only one. As you get sme expereince you kind of get a feel for what your PC's can handle. But like I say, use HD as the determining factor. That rules BtH, saves, and Challenge Level so I use that, and it works great.

Is there a table that gives you all the monsters by HD? Basically I need something as a quick reference for monsters in ascending order of power?

I agree HP is the main factor, but I also look at HP (how quick will the PC's kill them), AC (how often are they likely to get hit), their base to hit (how often are they likely to hit the party AC's), damage they do, and the number I want to use. In 3E and Pathfinder they give you those CL tables based on these same factors, as well as any variables magic will throw into the mix. If you have those resources, you can still use their equivalents to most of the creatures in C&C, but with practice you should get pretty good at it yourself pretty quickly.

dgrm44 wrote:

Snoring Rock wrote:C&C is not balanced so much by the mast like 3.x or Pathfinder. It is more old school in that regard. You have to get a feel for it, but I would start with using HD as the determinng factor and try matching your encounters by HD and then by number of PC's. So a good one would be if you have 4 PC's you would use 4 or 5 orcs. You could use 2 HD creatures but only 2 perhaps. A 3HD monster would need to be only one. As you get sme expereince you kind of get a feel for what your PC's can handle. But like I say, use HD as the determining factor. That rules BtH, saves, and Challenge Level so I use that, and it works great.

Is there a table that gives you all the monsters by HD? Basically I need something as a quick reference for monsters in ascending order of power?

Nothing the Trolls have done. I think a fan did something along those lines after M&T of Aihrde was released, but I don't know where it is.

dgrm44 wrote:I'm a newbie to C&C. Just got my books in the mail and looking forward to trying the system out with my group.
Are there tables that list the monsters by XP value so I can easily find monsters of appropriate level to challenge the group with?
Thanks!

I know where it comes from and I've experienced it first hand but I find this approach to encounter design strange and unsatisfying. I say resist the urge to scale enemies to your group. Let them probe and test and decide if they want to hide, run away or attack.

NJPDX wrote:

dgrm44 wrote:I'm a newbie to C&C. Just got my books in the mail and looking forward to trying the system out with my group.
Are there tables that list the monsters by XP value so I can easily find monsters of appropriate level to challenge the group with?
Thanks!

I know where it comes from and I've experienced it first hand but I find this approach to encounter design strange and unsatisfying. I say resist the urge to scale enemies to your group. Let them probe and test and decide if they want to hide, run away or attack.

I agree. Feed it to them a bit slowly and they can decide whether or not to press on. It is important to note, coming out of the 3.x paradigm, that all encounters don't have to end in 'victory' for the PC's...

NJPDX wrote:Let them probe and test and decide if they want to hide, run away or attack.

Might be unsatisfying to you, but his group might like playing the "kill things and take their stuff" style.

Even then I could still see monsters grouped by HD as being useful.

This could've been a useful appendices for all the monster books.

Sir Ironside wrote:

NJPDX wrote:Let them probe and test and decide if they want to hide, run away or attack.

Might be unsatisfying to you, but his group might like playing the "kill things and take their stuff" style.

Agreed. Let's not get off track and start criticizing the OP's style of play.

As for the OP's question, CLASSIC MONSTERS does have some handy reference charts for all three monster books. They aren't sorted by HD, but they are pretty easy to skim for HD in the range you're looking for.

kreider204 wrote:
Agreed. Let's not get off track and start criticizing the OP's style of play.

??? I didn't read anyone criticizing the OP's style of play. Maybe another thread?

I'm really interested in a chart that helps me get an idea of monsters relative power for quick reference, from their I can narrow it down. It would be helpful but not necessarily like the CR in 3.X/PF.

dgrm44 wrote:I'm really interested in a chart that helps me get an idea of monsters relative power for quick reference, from their I can narrow it down. It would be helpful but not necessarily like the CR in 3.X/PF.

There is no company produced one. If you are starting them at 1st level you can use what you know from 3.x as they are basically the same monsters.

kreider204 wrote:
Agreed. Let's not get off track and start criticizing the OP's style of play.

As for the OP's question, CLASSIC MONSTERS does have some handy reference charts for all three monster books. They aren't sorted by HD, but they are pretty easy to skim for HD in the range you're looking for.

Definitely wasn't trying to criticize, just offering an alternative approach to even needing the table in the first place. People should definitely play the way that makes them happiest.

Arduin wrote:

kreider204 wrote:
Agreed. Let's not get off track and start criticizing the OP's style of play.

??? I didn't read anyone criticizing the OP's style of play. Maybe another thread?

I didn't see anyone criticizing, I was just pointing out that this comment might not solve the problem if the group liked playing kill things > take stuff.

dgrm44 wrote:I'm really interested in a chart that helps me get an idea of monsters relative power for quick reference, from their I can narrow it down. It would be helpful but not necessarily like the CR in 3.X/PF.

Agreed, and there are other things in the C&C rules and editorial quality you will find as well. The spelling and inconsistencies are a major annoyance, but the the game has no equal.

Arduin wrote:I agree. Feed it to them a bit slowly and they can decide whether or not to press on. It is important to note, coming out of the 3.x paradigm, that all encounters don't have to end in 'victory' for the PC's...

+1 Though I will add that 'victory' doesn't always come from force of arms.

Aside from that, HD is not always the best way to determine a "balanced" encounter. Sure in general more HD=higher "level" monster, but not always. Consider a Gargoyle (7HD) and a Ghast (4HD). As a player I would much rather face a gargoyle. BtB they have the same numbers encountered, same damage potential (though the Gargoyle has one additional attack than the Ghast, thus lowering the chance of getting the max), and the special abilities - Freeze for the Gargoyle (making them hard to spot when standing still, giving them a good chance of a surprise attack) and Stench & Paralyze for the Ghast, and lets not forget Ghoul Fever. Top that off with the Ghast having a better AC than the Gargoyle, and a much higher intelligence, they are a nasty, nasty foe. Of course, there is always the Undead factor and cleric's turning, but, unless all the creatures are turned, the fight can get ugly fast.

Might have already been said, but page 201 of the CKG does have an alphabetical list of monsters by Tier (Tier I = 1-3 HD, II = 4-6 HD, III = 7-9 HD, etc) to give you a a very general idea by HD. Of course, it goes on to say that Hit Dice alone doesn't make a monster encounter, so whether or not that will suit you is your discretion.