Fighters

[Rigon]

I give most of the classes extra attacks based on their BtH. Whenever a classes BtH is evenly divided by 6, they gain an extra attack. I allow fighters to add their attack bonus from specialization to thier Bth to determine extra attacks. Here are the rules:

Extra Attacks: : Most classes gain additional melee/ranged attacks each round as they advance in level. Whenever a character’s BtH is evenly divided by 6, you gain an extra attack.
-fighters gain extra attacks at levels 6, 12, & 18 (4 attacks max barring cleave and combat dominance)
-rangers, barbarians, berserkers, paladins, and cavaliers gain extra attacks at levels 7 & 13 (3 attacks max)
-clerics, druids, thieves, assassins, and bards gain an extra attack at level 12 (2 attacks max)
-wizards and sorcerers never gain an extra attack

Fighter: As the PHB, with the following changes/additions:
Weapon Specialization: At first level, the fighter selects one weapon to become an expert with. The fighter gains a +1 to hit and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 6 levels thereafter (+2 at 7th, +3 at 13th, etc) to a total bonus of +5. Furthermore, a fighter can add his to hit bonus from specialization to his BtH for determining eligibility for extra attacks, but only with the specialized weapon. (Extra attacks with specialized weapon at levels 5, 10, & 15)
Cleave: Beginning at 2nd level, if the fighter slays his opponent, he may make an immediate attack against another nearby (within 5 ft) opponent.
Combat Dominance: Whenever a new attack is gained, increase the HD of the creature affected by 1. So at 8th level, the fighter can use combat dominance on all 2 HD or less creatures, etc. It also works in conjunction with the fighters extra attacks.

My PCs aren't to 5th level yet, but I don't for see this being a problem.

R-

[mbeacom]

I give most of the classes extra attacks based on their BtH. Whenever a classes BtH is evenly divided by 6, they gain an extra attack. I allow fighters to add their attack bonus from specialization to thier Bth to determine extra attacks. Here are the rules:

Extra Attacks: : Most classes gain additional melee/ranged attacks each round as they advance in level. Whenever a character’s BtH is evenly divided by 6, you gain an extra attack.
-fighters gain extra attacks at levels 6, 12, & 18 (4 attacks max barring cleave and combat dominance)
-rangers, barbarians, berserkers, paladins, and cavaliers gain extra attacks at levels 7 & 13 (3 attacks max)
-clerics, druids, thieves, assassins, and bards gain an extra attack at level 12 (2 attacks max)
-wizards and sorcerers never gain an extra attack

Fighter: As the PHB, with the following changes/additions:
Weapon Specialization: At first level, the fighter selects one weapon to become an expert with. The fighter gains a +1 to hit and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 6 levels thereafter (+2 at 7th, +3 at 13th, etc) to a total bonus of +5. Furthermore, a fighter can add his to hit bonus from specialization to his BtH for determining eligibility for extra attacks, but only with the specialized weapon. (Extra attacks with specialized weapon at levels 5, 10, & 15)
Cleave: Beginning at 2nd level, if the fighter slays his opponent, he may make an immediate attack against another nearby (within 5 ft) opponent.
Combat Dominance: Whenever a new attack is gained, increase the HD of the creature affected by 1. So at 8th level, the fighter can use combat dominance on all 2 HD or less creatures, etc. It also works in conjunction with the fighters extra attacks.

My PCs aren't to 5th level yet, but I don't for see this being a problem.

R-

This sounds pretty cool to me!

[Rigon]

Thanks.

R-

[commanderFuron]

Fighters have an extra attack option - 2 weapon fighting. Since they have the highest BtH they have the best chance of being successful. 2 attacks is very powerful in C&C and I would not add them lightly, they will unbalance the game. The only change I would consider is making shield bash a normal attack option. By that, I mean it would be able to do damage (d6 + str) or do the abilities listed for a shield bash, the player decides. This is a very traditional way to use a shield in combat and lets the character have AC or try and focus on killing.

The other option is to give the Fighter some damage boosting options, but these are just as dangerous as more attacks.

[Fizz]

One simple way to increase the fighter's damage potential (if you think they need it), is to give more damage based on the amount they exceed the AC of the target. For example, if a fighter hits by 6 or more, he does an extra 50% damage. If he exceeds by 12, he inflicts 100% more damage, etc. It reflects the fighter's mastery of weapons, and gives him more damage potential without going crazy or over-complicating it.

-Fizz

[Lurker]

I give most of the classes extra attacks based on their BtH. Whenever a classes BtH is evenly divided by 6, they gain an extra attack. I allow fighters to add their attack bonus from specialization to thier Bth to determine extra attacks. Here are the rules:

Extra Attacks: : Most classes gain additional melee/ranged attacks each round as they advance in level. Whenever a character’s BtH is evenly divided by 6, you gain an extra attack.
-fighters gain extra attacks at levels 6, 12, & 18 (4 attacks max barring cleave and combat dominance)
-rangers, barbarians, berserkers, paladins, and cavaliers gain extra attacks at levels 7 & 13 (3 attacks max)
-clerics, druids, thieves, assassins, and bards gain an extra attack at level 12 (2 attacks max)
-wizards and sorcerers never gain an extra attack

Fighter: As the PHB, with the following changes/additions:
Weapon Specialization: At first level, the fighter selects one weapon to become an expert with. The fighter gains a +1 to hit and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 6 levels thereafter (+2 at 7th, +3 at 13th, etc) to a total bonus of +5. Furthermore, a fighter can add his to hit bonus from specialization to his BtH for determining eligibility for extra attacks, but only with the specialized weapon. (Extra attacks with specialized weapon at levels 5, 10, & 15)
Cleave: Beginning at 2nd level, if the fighter slays his opponent, he may make an immediate attack against another nearby (within 5 ft) opponent.
Combat Dominance: Whenever a new attack is gained, increase the HD of the creature affected by 1. So at 8th level, the fighter can use combat dominance on all 2 HD or less creatures, etc. It also works in conjunction with the fighters extra attacks.

My PCs aren't to 5th level yet, but I don't for see this being a problem.

R-

This sounds pretty cool to me!

Me too, I think I'll copy/paste that into my home brew and then not have to rework the fighter myself!

[Rigon]

I give most of the classes extra attacks based on their BtH. Whenever a classes BtH is evenly divided by 6, they gain an extra attack. I allow fighters to add their attack bonus from specialization to thier Bth to determine extra attacks. Here are the rules:

Extra Attacks: : Most classes gain additional melee/ranged attacks each round as they advance in level. Whenever a character’s BtH is evenly divided by 6, you gain an extra attack.
-fighters gain extra attacks at levels 6, 12, & 18 (4 attacks max barring cleave and combat dominance)
-rangers, barbarians, berserkers, paladins, and cavaliers gain extra attacks at levels 7 & 13 (3 attacks max)
-clerics, druids, thieves, assassins, and bards gain an extra attack at level 12 (2 attacks max)
-wizards and sorcerers never gain an extra attack

Fighter: As the PHB, with the following changes/additions:
Weapon Specialization: At first level, the fighter selects one weapon to become an expert with. The fighter gains a +1 to hit and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 6 levels thereafter (+2 at 7th, +3 at 13th, etc) to a total bonus of +5. Furthermore, a fighter can add his to hit bonus from specialization to his BtH for determining eligibility for extra attacks, but only with the specialized weapon. (Extra attacks with specialized weapon at levels 5, 10, & 15)
Cleave: Beginning at 2nd level, if the fighter slays his opponent, he may make an immediate attack against another nearby (within 5 ft) opponent.
Combat Dominance: Whenever a new attack is gained, increase the HD of the creature affected by 1. So at 8th level, the fighter can use combat dominance on all 2 HD or less creatures, etc. It also works in conjunction with the fighters extra attacks.

My PCs aren't to 5th level yet, but I don't for see this being a problem.

R-

This sounds pretty cool to me!

Me too, I think I'll copy/paste that into my home brew and then not have to rework the fighter myself!

Steal away, my friend.

R-

[jdizzy001]

I was looking over the numbers, and a fighter, as the class name suggests, is just that. His to hit bonus is so much higher than the other classes that giving him more combat abilities (though it is your perogative as a ck to do so) almost seems overkill. Many of the baddies in cnc require an unmodified 12 or more to hit, even at high levels. Look at the salamander. He is a 5 hd critter with a 19 ac. If one is a stingy ck who does not hand out magic items then a fighter of similar level (about a 5) is the only pc who will have an "easy time" hitting him (5 bth, 1 stat, 1 ability for a total modifier of 7. The fighter will need a 12 to hit the salamander). Other combat classes are going to need a 14 or possibly more.

I guess all i'm saying is that I think we under value the fighter because he looks so vanilla, when in actuality he is a class we should never leave home without.

[Rigon]

Tree is playing a fighter in my game. The other night, the group was fighting a horde of lizardmen. With my cleave ability, Tree was able to kill about 4 lizardmen a round. That made his fighter a badass. When the party levels up (probably after this adventure) the fighter will be on par with a wizard casting fireball. So, I'm definitely liking my changes to the class.

R-

[Arduin]

When the party levels up (probably after this adventure) the fighter will be on par with a wizard casting fireball.

Are you using the standard XP progression? Reason I ask is that you state the party will level up. That's a very rare event above 2nd level if everyone is using different charts.

[Lord Dynel]

I was looking over the numbers, and a fighter, as the class name suggests, is just that. His to hit bonus is so much higher than the other classes that giving him more combat abilities (though it is your perogative as a ck to do so) almost seems overkill. Many of the baddies in cnc require an unmodified 12 or more to hit, even at high levels. Look at the salamander. He is a 5 hd critter with a 19 ac. If one is a stingy ck who does not hand out magic items then a fighter of similar level (about a 5) is the only pc who will have an "easy time" hitting him (5 bth, 1 stat, 1 ability for a total modifier of 7. The fighter will need a 12 to hit the salamander). Other combat classes are going to need a 14 or possibly more.

I guess all i'm saying is that I think we under value the fighter because he looks so vanilla, when in actuality he is a class we should never leave home without.

I agree jd. I can see how the fighter looks a little...uninspiring...but I guess it comes down to perceptions. I've thought many, many times about adding things to the fighter, but in the end, I don't. I don't know why, really, because a lot of the time I agree with what many of you all have to say about them.

I try to take everything into consideration when thinking about the fighter. Not only what he has to work with, but what he doesn't have to deal with. With Weapon Specialization and a +1 BtH, he's always going to be +2 to hit and damage (then, +3 at 7th level) above any other martial class. This is an all the time, always on, and always applicable ability (assuming he's using a weapon he's specialized in). Then, I consider that the first magical weapon, especially if it's the one the fighter is specialized in, will most likely go to him as well. He can use any armor and any weapon (and shields) which is an advantage over rangers. Barbarians can also wear any armor, but could lose a couple of their abilities of they wear armor too heavy. Both the ranger and the barbarian, however, progress slower than the fighter. Knights and paladins have no real restrictions to weapon and armor choice, but have to follow moral and religious codes that could affect them in certain circumstances (and paladins have the LG restriction on alignment). Plus, they too progress slower than fighters. Monks, I feel, are secondary combatants and they poor damage and armor class relegates them to that role. They do come into their own in the middle-to-high levels (6th to 10th) but by then, fighters are still ahead of them, offensively and defensively. Tack on the extra attack, though late, and the fighter is (potentially) hitting twice the time every other class is. Combat Dominance is a tiny bit lackluster, granted, but the lower level of power in C&C means, IMHO, that the lower level baddies - goblins, orcs, skeletons, etc. - will remain viable longer, if only as mooks and minions. I'll fully admit that this ability may take a little bit of help from the CK to utilize - meaning, the CK will have to put in scenarios that will allow the fighter to use it. Otherwise, yeah, it loses it's what little luster it has.

I'm sorry for rehashing highlights of the PHB, which I'm sure you all already know. I've been wondering the "why" of a lot of house rules I see these days, my own included. I look at the fighter and I just don't see the issues that others do, so I wonder what it is that I'm missing.

[Arduin]

There's simply nothing magical about it.

Yes, there is. If played as written in the rules. Compulsion without mundane means is, by definition, magic. You can disagree but that doesn't change reality.

[Lurker]

Ok, this may be a bit off topic, but I have a question ... what about fighters (and then the sub classes of fighter - Ranger, Barbarian, Knight & Paladin) and 'styles' of fighting. I remember a Crusader's article about fighting styles that I liked. However, I never worked it into my home brew or worked out the bugs I thought it may have.

For fighting styles it was something like 'board and weapon' - specialized with using a shield and weapon, '2-handed' - using a weapon 2 handed (even if it isn't necessarily normally a 2 handed weapon), '2 weapon' - specialized with 2 weapons & reducing *** not completely eliminating*** the negatives associated with 2 weapons, and there were a few others. I was also going to add finesse fighting - using dex as the primary combat attribute instead of strength.

Now to the specific question ... how would you fold this idea into Rigon's above idea Would they be tided to weapon specialization, extra attacks (that is what I lean toward) or something I'm missing

LD & JD, I do agree with you to a point, that the fighter is good and the biggest issue is he reads sooooo vanilla. However, as my favorite ice-cream is vanilla with blue berries in it I have to tinker with the class a bit.

[Arduin]

I remember a Crusader's article about fighting styles that I liked. However, I never worked it into my home brew or worked out the bugs I thought it may have.

For fighting styles it was something like 'board and weapon' -

I remember something like that back in the D&D 2E days.

[Rigon]

When the party levels up (probably after this adventure) the fighter will be on par with a wizard casting fireball.

Are you using the standard XP progression? Reason I ask is that you state the party will level up. That's a very rare event above 2nd level if everyone is using different charts.

I'm not using any XP progression. I'm not running a standard campaign. This is just a test run for my house rules to see how well they work and how well I like them. So I will be advancing levels as I feel appropriate for the adventure. Which will bring the party up a level after the current installment is finished, I think. I need to check on it in the next adventure.

R-

[Rigon]

For fighting styles it was something like 'board and weapon' - specialized with using a shield and weapon, '2-handed' - using a weapon 2 handed (even if it isn't necessarily normally a 2 handed weapon), '2 weapon' - specialized with 2 weapons & reducing *** not completely eliminating*** the negatives associated with 2 weapons, and there were a few others. I was also going to add finesse fighting - using dex as the primary combat attribute instead of strength.

Now to the specific question ... how would you fold this idea into Rigon's above idea Would they be tided to weapon specialization, extra attacks (that is what I lean toward) or something I'm missing

Lurker, I had this discussion come up a few months ago in my game, as one player found weapon specialization too restrictive and felt that it should apply to weapon groups. I considered it, but to me that is not what WSp is about so I didn't go that way.
For fighting style, you could allow the fighter to either select one weapon to specialize in and gain bonuses or specialize in a style, which I'm assuming has it's own benefits.

R-

[Go0gleplex]

I'm starting to experiment with the fighter abilities myself. Though my thoughts are to increase their ability to survive serious combat. I've done away with the HD limitation on Combat Dominance. Added an ability called Citadel which triples the shield bonus for a round at the cost of attack and movement. At higher levels will resist knockback and stun as well if you use such (I do). I've also replaced Extra Attack with a once per day ability called Indomitable which reduces physical attack damage by half for a single battle and grants a bonus to saves for breath and magic attacks dealing physical damage. We'll see how that works out.

[Treebore]

I continue to find my house ruled Combat Dominance to be pretty darn effective, they lay waste around them as they wade into masses of enemies while relying on their armor to keep them from, being cut down from all the enemies surrounding them. While suffering their enemies to get their Flanking and attacking from behind bonus'. I am entertaining giving Fighters a big bonus versus Grapple and related attacks, such as an additional +4, to make it harder for mobs of enemies to drag them down. then give the other fighter types a +2 due to their class. So basically all the classes with a Bth of 0 or +1 and progressing by one every level there after. The rest will still have to fear the mobs.

[jdizzy001]

Hey! I like to revive dead threads! I saw a few ideas similar to the one I am about to propose, but here it goes anyways. If a group is worried that their fighter's CD is lackluster, the CK can allow the fighter to replace it with an advantage. This could also be applied to other classes as suggested on page 267 of the CK guide. It will also help players diversify should they decide to run the same class.