New Advantage Idea

[Lobo316]

I've got a couple of ideas for new Advantages to add to my game. Just trying to add a little more variety to the list. How do these sound to you...

Cutthroat
Prerequisite: Back Stab, Base Attack +2
Benefit: Your Backstab attacks cause an additional 1d4 damage
Normal: Backstab grants a flat multiplier to damage based on the rogues level

Mobile Caster
Prerequisite: Ability to case 3rd level spells
Benefit: You may move five feet before casting a spell
Normal: You cannot move and cast a spell

Anyone else have any to share?

[Lobo316]

Oh, and while I'm on the topic of new Advantages, I have one in my game called "Stealthy". It grants a +1 to all hide and move silents checks. Is +1 a decent enough bonus for this type of advantage? I know how much 1 point can have an effect on the game, so I'm hesitant to change that to +2. Anyone using anything simliar? If you were selecting an advantage for a stealth based ranger, rogue, assassin, whatever...would +1 on this type of advantage be enough for you want to to take it? Or would you glance over that and move onto something else?

[mbeacom]

I think both of those are nice enough, if a bit power creepy. Which, if you're cool with power creep, I might suggest something like the following. It will make your rogues more versatile, their damage output less swingy and won't keep piling on effects to an ability that is already somewhat mechanically "heavy".

Versatile Cutthroat
Prerequisite: Back Attack, Base Attack +2
Benefit: Your failed Back Attacks cause an additional 1d4 damage on a hit
Normal: Back Attack requires a successful sneak or hide check.

The Versatile Cutthroat advantage represents the ability of a Rogue to inflict increased damage to vital areas even when the back attack is not entirely successful. This bonus damage is the only benefit. All other aspects of the attack will be as normal attacks, meaning there is no +4 bonus to the hit roll since complete surprise has not been achieved.

[mbeacom]

Oh, and while I'm on the topic of new Advantages, I have one in my game called "Stealthy". It grants a +1 to all hide and move silents checks. Is +1 a decent enough bonus for this type of advantage? I know how much 1 point can have an effect on the game, so I'm hesitant to change that to +2. Anyone using anything simliar? If you were selecting an advantage for a stealth based ranger, rogue, assassin, whatever...would +1 on this type of advantage be enough for you want to to take it? Or would you glance over that and move onto something else?

I think your sense on this is right. +1 is probably enough, powerwise, but maybe not enough to entice someone to be excited about taking it. Thus, I would leave it as +1 base, but add a kicker, granting a +2 under certain circumstances. Like perhaps it would grant +2 to Rangers but only in wilderness areas with cover. Or grant +2 to Rogues, but only in noisy urban environments.

[Lobo316]

Thanks for the replies Mbeacom. I will definately take those into consideration.

Let me share another tweak I'm playing around with. I use advantages that basically grant a +1 to saves useing (fill in the attribute...str, dex, wis, whatever). But no one takes 'em. I asked the group and they flat out said, they likely would never take those. Just not worth the advantage when there are so many "better" advantages, or more "useful" ones.

So, I'm considering this...going a little more "thematic" with the saving throws and pairing them as follows...

Tower of Fortitude +2 to saving throws involving Constitution or Wisdom
Tower of Iron Will +2 to saving throws involving Constitution or Charisma
Tower of Strength +2 to saving throws involving Strength or Charisma
Tower of Thought +2 to saving throws involving Intelligence or Wisdom
Tower of Intuition +2 to Saving throws involving Intelligence or Dexterity
Tower of Athleticism +2 to Saving throws involving Dexterity or Strength

Is this a good idea? Bad? Should I even mess with it if they don't want to take advantages they grant a boon to saves? Note also, the +2 is debatable, considering I have it affecting a pair of attributes, I may just make it +1. I'm sure this looks a bit more appealing than simply "+1 to Con saves", but is it overkill?

[Lobo316]

I think both of those are nice enough, if a bit power creepy. Which, if you're cool with power creep, I might suggest something like the following. It will make your rogues more versatile, their damage output less swingy and won't keep piling on effects to an ability that is already somewhat mechanically "heavy".

Versatile Cutthroat
Prerequisite: Back Attack, Base Attack +2
Benefit: Your failed Back Attacks cause an additional 1d4 damage on a hit
Normal: Back Attack requires a successful sneak or hide check.

The Versatile Cutthroat advantage represents the ability of a Rogue to inflict increased damage to vital areas even when the back attack is not entirely successful. This bonus damage is the only benefit. All other aspects of the attack will be as normal attacks, meaning there is no +4 bonus to the hit roll since complete surprise has not been achieved.

Two thoughts on his M...First, realize that I will not be multiplying that additonal 1d4. It's just bonus damage (and extra 1d4 tacked on, never multiplied).

Second...I really like what you came up with there. I think I'm going to add that. I may end up using both actually! I'll call one Verstile Cutthroat and the other Bloody Cutthroat

Thanks!

[Lobo316]

Also expanded up on Mobile Caster just a bit....

Mobile Caster
Prerequisite: Ability to case 3rd level spells
Benefit: You may move five feet before casting a spell. If you decide to move more than 5, you may move up to ½ your move value, but must make a concentration check at the end or not be able to cast the spell (you do not lose it, you just can’t cast it). The CL is = to the level of the spell, +2 for each 5 feet moved (beyond the first 5).

[mbeacom]

Thanks for the replies Mbeacom. I will definately take those into consideration.

Let me share another tweak I'm playing around with. I use advantages that basically grant a +1 to saves useing (fill in the attribute...str, dex, wis, whatever). But no one takes 'em. I asked the group and they flat out said, they likely would never take those. Just not worth the advantage when there are so many "better" advantages, or more "useful" ones.

So, I'm considering this...going a little more "thematic" with the saving throws and pairing them as follows...

Tower of Fortitude +2 to saving throws involving Constitution or Wisdom
Tower of Iron Will +2 to saving throws involving Constitution or Charisma
Tower of Strength +2 to saving throws involving Strength or Charisma
Tower of Thought +2 to saving throws involving Intelligence or Wisdom
Tower of Intuition +2 to Saving throws involving Intelligence or Dexterity
Tower of Athleticism +2 to Saving throws involving Dexterity or Strength

Is this a good idea? Bad? Should I even mess with it if they don't want to take advantages they grant a boon to saves? Note also, the +2 is debatable, considering I have it affecting a pair of attributes, I may just make it +1. I'm sure this looks a bit more appealing than simply "+1 to Con saves", but is it overkill?

There's a lot going on here. I'll try to condense my response to underlying philosophy, but first, a straight answer. I think these are perfectly ok. Not overkill while still being enticing enough to take as a PC (though most still wont simply because save boosts are not as exciting as attack and damage boosts). Yes, the +2 is a big deal in C&C. Yes, doing it to two stats is a pretty big boost. But, here's why I don't think it will cause problems. First, it's a totally situational advantage, which, realistically should have a bit more oomph. If it's something that might not even come into play every session, it needs to be pretty big to be worth burning an advantage slot for. Second, it doesn't move control from you to the player. You get to choose enemies. If you want this advantage to be powerful, choose enemies that attack that stat. If you feel it's too powerful in practice, just decrease the number of enemies that attack that stat. You retain full control. This is different than boosts to things like Back Attack where the player has control (to some degree) of how often it will be applied. So I say let em rip!

[mbeacom]

I think both of those are nice enough, if a bit power creepy. Which, if you're cool with power creep, I might suggest something like the following. It will make your rogues more versatile, their damage output less swingy and won't keep piling on effects to an ability that is already somewhat mechanically "heavy".

Versatile Cutthroat
Prerequisite: Back Attack, Base Attack +2
Benefit: Your failed Back Attacks cause an additional 1d4 damage on a hit
Normal: Back Attack requires a successful sneak or hide check.

The Versatile Cutthroat advantage represents the ability of a Rogue to inflict increased damage to vital areas even when the back attack is not entirely successful. This bonus damage is the only benefit. All other aspects of the attack will be as normal attacks, meaning there is no +4 bonus to the hit roll since complete surprise has not been achieved.

Two thoughts on his M...First, realize that I will not be multiplying that additonal 1d4. It's just bonus damage (and extra 1d4 tacked on, never multiplied).

Second...I really like what you came up with there. I think I'm going to add that. I may end up using both actually! I'll call one Verstile Cutthroat and the other Bloody Cutthroat

Thanks!

Agreed. This is a textbook example of bonus damage that shouldn't get multiplied. In fact, what it's doing it acting as a sort of consolation prize for missing the opportunity to multiply in the first place (because it would only trigger on a failed sneak check prior to a back attack). So to multiply it would defeat the purpose.

To your second point. That's awesome and terrible at the same time. Awesome for the player because once your rogue has both advantages, he's going to be a real trouble maker for you by killing all your mobs faster. Terrible for the player to have to decide which to choose first. You could actually add a caveat to each one that you can only have one or the other and never both, like its a path you choose. Conversely, for a highly tactical rogue, you could allow them to have both advantages but to make the choice which "skill" they're going to use on any given back attack. Like make them choose bloody back attack or versatile back attack. Then make them roleplay what the difference is to the approach.

[mbeacom]

Also expanded up on Mobile Caster just a bit....

Mobile Caster
Prerequisite: Ability to case 3rd level spells
Benefit: You may move five feet before casting a spell. If you decide to move more than 5, you may move up to ½ your move value, but must make a concentration check at the end or not be able to cast the spell (you do not lose it, you just can’t cast it). The CL is = to the level of the spell, +2 for each 5 feet moved (beyond the first 5).

This might be a bit overpowered for my taste. I think it needs more downside. More risk. I would add a line that if they miss the concentration check by 5 or more (or whatever number feels right to you), then they DO lose the spell.

[Lobo316]

Also expanded up on Mobile Caster just a bit....

Mobile Caster
Prerequisite: Ability to case 3rd level spells
Benefit: You may move five feet before casting a spell. If you decide to move more than 5, you may move up to ½ your move value, but must make a concentration check at the end or not be able to cast the spell (you do not lose it, you just can’t cast it). The CL is = to the level of the spell, +2 for each 5 feet moved (beyond the first 5).

This might be a bit overpowered for my taste. I think it needs more downside. More risk. I would add a line that if they miss the concentration check by 5 or more (or whatever number feels right to you), then they DO lose the spell.

For this one, I'll likely stick with what I have. I mean, they could move anyway without casting. This way, they can only move half (instead of full), but if they fail the concentration check, they have to wait until next round to cast (which is what they would have had to do anyway, only now they've lost half thier potential movement).

Hmmm...still, I might add that if they roll a natural 1, the spell is lost.

[Lobo316]

Comments removed

[Lobo316]

I think both of those are nice enough, if a bit power creepy. Which, if you're cool with power creep, I might suggest something like the following. It will make your rogues more versatile, their damage output less swingy and won't keep piling on effects to an ability that is already somewhat mechanically "heavy".

Versatile Cutthroat
Prerequisite: Back Attack, Base Attack +2
Benefit: Your failed Back Attacks cause an additional 1d4 damage on a hit
Normal: Back Attack requires a successful sneak or hide check.

The Versatile Cutthroat advantage represents the ability of a Rogue to inflict increased damage to vital areas even when the back attack is not entirely successful. This bonus damage is the only benefit. All other aspects of the attack will be as normal attacks, meaning there is no +4 bonus to the hit roll since complete surprise has not been achieved.

Two thoughts on his M...First, realize that I will not be multiplying that additonal 1d4. It's just bonus damage (and extra 1d4 tacked on, never multiplied).

Second...I really like what you came up with there. I think I'm going to add that. I may end up using both actually! I'll call one Verstile Cutthroat and the other Bloody Cutthroat

Thanks!

Agreed. This is a textbook example of bonus damage that shouldn't get multiplied. In fact, what it's doing it acting as a sort of consolation prize for missing the opportunity to multiply in the first place (because it would only trigger on a failed sneak check prior to a back attack). So to multiply it would defeat the purpose.

To your second point. That's awesome and terrible at the same time. Awesome for the player because once your rogue has both advantages, he's going to be a real trouble maker for you by killing all your mobs faster. Terrible for the player to have to decide which to choose first. You could actually add a caveat to each one that you can only have one or the other and never both, like its a path you choose. Conversely, for a highly tactical rogue, you could allow them to have both advantages but to make the choice which "skill" they're going to use on any given back attack. Like make them choose bloody back attack or versatile back attack. Then make them roleplay what the difference is to the approach.

On this...

Two thoughts on his M...First, realize that I will not be multiplying that additonal 1d4. It's just bonus damage (and extra 1d4 tacked on, never multiplied).

I meant this in either case (however I do this adavantage, whether just one advantage or two seperate ones, you don't multiple the extra 1d4)