proficency penalties

[jdizzy001]

in 3e if a pc uses a weapon with which they are not proficent, they incur a -6 penalty. In 4e the pc is denied the +2/+3 proficency bonus. In cnc is there any penalty beyond losing access to specific class abilities? I haven't noticed any but if there are could you please direct me to them?

[Relaxo]

I forget where it is, but in C&C, characters are -4 to hit with weapons that aren't on their list of allowed weapons.
You'll notice fighters are listed with "all". which is totally badass.

But as to pointing it out, I don't have my books with me, so I can't. In C&C it's a list, not categories like "simple" or "martial" (so you don't have to burn a feat to learn one exotic weapon (and there are no feats in C&C)).

short answer: -4

[Arduin]

See page 9 of PHB, Class Description Terminology.

[jdizzy001]

Roger that. Thanks

[mbeacom]

in 3e if a pc uses a weapon with which they are not proficent, they incur a -6 penalty. In 4e the pc is denied the +2/+3 proficency bonus. In cnc is there any penalty beyond losing access to specific class abilities? I haven't noticed any but if there are could you please direct me to them?

On a side note, I prefer the old school penalty compared to the newer version of "you don't get the proficiency bonus" because it helps keep number inflation under control. If you assume the proficiency in the base number, there's one less bonus to compute and inflate your final to hit modifier.

[Lord Dynel]

It definitely conveys a different message.

Zero baseline for proficiency, negative penalty for non-proficiency: competent with proficient weapons, but poor with non-proficient weapons

vs.

Positive baseline for proficiency, no penalty for proficiency: above average competency with proficient weapons, standard proficient with non-proficient weapons

At least that what it implies, to me. But I have a skewed point of view, because I'm use to the former and not the latter. What this tells me, mostly, is that if I want to convert monster from a latter system to a former system then I need to make sure I lower the AC of latter-system monsters by X (where X is the "proficiency bonus" given for weapon proficiency). Otherwise, it really plays out the same.

[jdizzy001]

It tells me there is a numbers inflation in the game which was accompanied by multiple feat taxes. But that is for another discussion.

[Dracyian]

It tells me there is a numbers inflation in the game which was accompanied by multiple feat taxes. But that is for another discussion.

This just screams for a revolutionary war gimmick in my mind....

No Taxation without Feat-Repsentation maybe??? Idk