Cities, Towns, & Villages how much detail?

[Snoring Rock]

I think I started a thread on this some time ago. I am currently running campaign in the Wildrlands. I have the City State of the Invincible Overlord, The World Emperor, Taranits, Thunderhold, etc. I have cities from other settings, that I use as stand-in's for some of the unpublished locations. Recently I went to great pains to map and detail one of the minor smaller cities and I found that the players take some interest in the map and discovering the locations in the city, but most of the time just want to "see the armorer". I give the names of NPC's and details of the locations they visit, in order to role play more of the city action, but they tend to rush it and just want their stuff exchanged for cash of weapons sold, or what ever. All temples are generic free clinics. You should walk up, pay alms and get healed. I do not play them that way, but there are times, just out of the dungeon, that they come flying into town in a whirlwind and just want gem values and new stuff ASAP.

I have started giving them what they want, but the prices seem to be going up on goods and the value of treasure for trade is going down. No one has caught on just yet. As the PC's get to know and interact with NPC's they tend to trust more and give more help. When treated like counter clerks, known only as the "armorer" and the "elf weapon guy", my NPC's clam up.

A long time ago, a town was a place to have a drink, rest, get to know folks and was a place to build relationships in order to gain trust and get information. Maybe too much of WoW or Diablo has crept into the gaming psyche. I mean last game, my guys blew into town looking for the armor guy and asked "who-ever" if there was a place to buy magic. That did not work so they asked for the closest place they could adventure for a magic item to raise their stats. Ummmm....none of the NPC's knew what they were asking for. To top it off, they are now inquiring in town for a "heal-bot". None of the town's people know what that is either. So the new name for a cleric, is heal-bot. Makes me want to roll one up and get on the other side of the screen.

Am I doing too much work detailing cities and towns trying to give away adventure hooks, and they just don't care? Am I wasting my time?

Grrrrr.......

[Zudrak]

Good questions, Snori. I find I do more work than is necessary, but feel it is better to have and not need than need and not have. Although, there are times the latter situation has come up and that's when improvising comes in. As daunting as I feel that is (for some strange reason as I have been CKing/DMing for 23 of the last 33 years), it has always worked out just fine -- just like EGG has tried to have us DM's do from the beginning.

My own theory is that as long as I've enjoyed detailing a space and the party has glossed over even a little of it (or I've added some intrigue/events that draw them in more than they initially planned), I've succeeded. Or I've at least practiced for the next time when, Lord willing, they'll actually do something with my "work" and preparation. Heh.

[Treebore]

Wow! Even video games don't use nomenclature like "heal-bot", I wonder where they are getting that from? Sounds like they talk in a completely "meta" way, and aren't even trying to do basic "role" play.

I'd keep at it, I wouldn't give them what they want until they start interacting with the NPC's in the right way, because when they do, the game just becomes that much more fun. Break them of this "meta" mind set they have going on.

[alcyone]

First of all, if you haven't, actually tell them what kind of a feel you'd like for this game, that if they take your cues seriously and get in character, your campaign will be richer for it. Also, don't be subtle about the treatment of the NPCs, make it clear that if they just drop their gems and say "What will you give me for these" that they will be getting robbed, either by the merchant taking them for rubes or by passersby who overhear.

Otherwise, whatever countermeasures you take will go unnoticed or be ignored, while the players keep adapting to your changes in even more outlandish ways.

They might keep doing it anyway. If that's the case, find a second group to run your game with that will appreciate the subtleties of your game.

Also, some people strutting around town trying to move treasure on a daily basis are going to draw some attention, which should be a real, credible threat to their lives and livelihood.

Personally, I don't mind a little goofing around and talking out of character at the table, and don't want or expect dramatic actors, but I also am there to play a fantasy rpg, where it matters that you are hitting an orc with your sword and not just trying to roll high on a die. Sometimes it seems like if you got rid of everything and replaced it with a featureless plain of nameless boxes with numbers on them players wouldn't notice; they'd still just be crunching numbers and optimizing the math. RPGs came out of wargaming. Some of that's to be expected, but yeah, "heal-bot" rankles.

[Arduin]

Wow! Even video games don't use nomenclature like "heal-bot", I wonder where they are getting that from? Sounds like they talk in a completely "meta" way, and aren't even trying to do basic "role" play.

I'd keep at it, I wouldn't give them what they want until they start interacting with the NPC's in the right way, because when they do, the game just becomes that much more fun. Break them of this "meta" mind set they have going on.

Agreed. Well said Tree!

[Fiffergrund]

Wow, a much more measured set of replies than I would have written.

Anyone who uses the word "heal-bot" at my table, without a hint of irony, gets a sucking chest wound.

Taking things for granted is one of the worst insults a player can have toward a GM.

They must be broken.

[Snoring Rock]

Yes, I agree, it is meta-gaming gone wild. That is why I like keeping my games as RAW as possible with no add on feats or skills. I added the advantages from the CKG and that satisfied them, but there are still others in the group trying to min/max and find ways around rules. This heal-bot thing really kills me. I think you are right on with this being a meta-game problem.

I really hate munchkinism.

[Arduin]

I really hate munchkinism.

Munchkins have NEVER failed to get their characters killed in my game. Through no doing of my own. Just seems to go hand in glove with tactical incompetence.