Troll Lord Games

Go check out the Judge Guild kickstarter. They have it up and after 3 days are at 24,000 already. They are putting the CSIO back in print. They are also re-mastering the maps of the Wilderlands. They will be currently in print again. If this goes like they hope, it could breath life into the dead company one again. This time without the need for a 3rd party.

Yeah, but before I back it at the prices they are asking for, a lot of those maps are going to have to be "unlocked", especially since I am very happy with my Necromancer Games versions as well as the originals of both CSIO and The Wilderlands.

Ditto.

I'm in.

They are at 27,000 already. Just 1000 more and it is funded. It is pricy though. And the add-ons are high too! If they fund, you get the map of CSIO of 5 bucks. Each level they add a map and 5 bucks. If they make it all the way, you get all of the maps for an extra 90 bucks. I would be on board if they would do some new content. It appears they plan only to clean up or republish old stuff. The maps will be two-sided in full color. One side with cool old-time map look and the other side done by Robert Conley that will be more workable as game master. Still 90 bucks?

40 bucks for the CSIO book that contains Pathfinder stats or JG Universal and has no new content. Same stuff as 1977. Then add 9 bucks for the maps. And it will take until summer 2015 to get the maps.

It is certainly interesting but I will be passing on this one.

In fact, just a short while ago, I was selling my lot of d20 Wilderlands material... the Box Set, City State Hardcover, the Player's Guide, and the Caverns of Thracia (d20), plus the 3 d20 conversions that Goodman Games did. Had a couple of people looking but no takers:

http://arcanacreations.blogspot.ca/2014 ... undle.html

Probably for the best, I don't mind keeping these on the shelf -- they are rather nice.

M

I'll never sell my Necromancer Games stuff, and I have multiple copies! I did trade one boxed set of the Wilderlands, though, but I got two full bundles of the Ptolus Hardcover for them, so I was willing to part with a copy.

Snoring Rock wrote:They are at 27,000 already. Just 1000 more and it is funded. It is pricy though. And the add-ons are high too! If they fund, you get the map of CSIO of 5 bucks. Each level they add a map and 5 bucks. If they make it all the way, you get all of the maps for an extra 90 bucks. I would be on board if they would do some new content. It appears they plan only to clean up or republish old stuff. The maps will be two-sided in full color. One side with cool old-time map look and the other side done by Robert Conley that will be more workable as game master. Still 90 bucks?

40 bucks for the CSIO book that contains Pathfinder stats or JG Universal and has no new content. Same stuff as 1977. Then add 9 bucks for the maps. And it will take until summer 2015 to get the maps.

The only reason I can talk myself into buying this, and yes, I am having to talk myself into it, is because I value those maps at $10 each, retail. So if they can get over half of those funded, I'll buy in. If not, I've been making do just fine with my old stuff for years or decades, and will continue to do so.

Yes if you look at it like that. I just do not like it when the level unlocks something you must pay even more for. The book when first written retailed for what; $10? The production value is higher now, but no new content. I got the entire Wilderlands (Necro) for $85 that includes all 18 maps. This is the CSIO with cleaned up art and verbage for $50 soft bound and then an extra $90 for the maps. That is approaching twice as much and not near as much goodness.

But my emotional side is telling me I should buy in. Ahhhhhhhhh!!

Kahn!!!!!!

We should all just pool our money and get James Mishler to finish his C&C Wilderlands project.

kreider204 wrote:We should all just pool our money and get James Mishler to finish his C&C Wilderlands project.

I would do that! James' stuff is waaaay better than the original material!

Treebore wrote:

kreider204 wrote:We should all just pool our money and get James Mishler to finish his C&C Wilderlands project.

I would do that! James' stuff is waaaay better than the original material!

I'd get in on that.

R-

Rigon wrote:

Treebore wrote:

kreider204 wrote:We should all just pool our money and get James Mishler to finish his C&C Wilderlands project.

I would do that! James' stuff is waaaay better than the original material!

I'd get in on that.

R-

Me too! Bought all his stuff so far would love to see more.

I've been mulling over this for a few days, and I think I'm of the same mind as Rock. It's just a little out of my price range, personally, especially for no new information/material. I have all the d20 stuff (and a lot of the JG stuff, digitally) and the d20 stuff is really good. I also picked up the City State of the Sea Kings, and it was pretty good, too. I'd like to continue supporting the JG Universal line, but this might be something I have to get into later, after the KS, assuming I can piece it together. But I'm the type of buyer that's willing to spend more money if it's spread out - this KS is a fairly hefty buy-in.

Yeah I'm not too excited about this one. I re-bought the pdf of the Necro box set after stupid stupid stupidly selling my hard copy in my RPG purge. There's still more material in that set that I could ever hope to use.

And its funny. Beautiful color maps are awesome usually, but part of the Wilderlands charm is its black and white, "built for function-not-beauty" style. I might be the only one who thinks so, but gorgeous color maps seems sort of un-Wilderlandsy.

I understand the love for these maps, but consider, you could go to http://www.hexographer.com/ and make hex maps to your scale and specification forever, take them to your local copy shop if you want them printed big (or just tape them together), and if you pay for a license you get some extra features. And it's all yours.

Snoring Rock wrote:They are at 27,000 already. Just 1000 more and it is funded. It is pricy though. And the add-ons are high too! If they fund, you get the map of CSIO of 5 bucks. Each level they add a map and 5 bucks. If they make it all the way, you get all of the maps for an extra 90 bucks. I would be on board if they would do some new content. It appears they plan only to clean up or republish old stuff. The maps will be two-sided in full color. One side with cool old-time map look and the other side done by Robert Conley that will be more workable as game master. Still 90 bucks?

40 bucks for the CSIO book that contains Pathfinder stats or JG Universal and has no new content. Same stuff as 1977. Then add 9 bucks for the maps. And it will take until summer 2015 to get the maps.

Who says this has no new content? As for the price of the maps, these are going to retail at $10 a piece. Printing cost float about $3.20-$4.50 depending on the quantity. The reason why addon's for maps come with a cost is for the pricing transparency. With kickstarters where stretch goals include "free" stuff, it's actually not free. You still are paying for it, they just choose to use that money to give you more. Our pledge system is too close to cost to do that. We aren't really going to be making any extra money until this thing goes to $80k and beyond as every bit of profit will go to the product of the book and the maps.

Since I don't do Kickstarters I will obviously pass until the product is out. However, I could get behind this and actually break my no KS rule if a couple of things happen. First off, as many of you know I would love to see the Judges Guild material become a part of the C&C product line. I feel that the Guild would work perfectly with the system and it would give C&C and JG both a needed shot of popularity. Maybe even filling the gap that is still present after the loss of Castle Zagyg.

Second, if the C&C idea were to come to pass the company could look at making or revising product to fit into games such as StarSIEGE and Amazing Adventures giving them a much needed boost. Just some food for thought.

Well, 7 of the 18 maps are now "unlocked", so now I have to seriously think about backing this. Despite what Bob posted above, I am seeing no mention of new material in the original write up, only the addition of old material from other sources. None of which is from the D20 material, but from the original printings. Maybe the new content is talked about in one of the KS updates?

Anyways, its looking like this has gotten big enough that I am willing to back it now.

I am a fan of JG, but I am not a fan of ANY of what this particular KS is about. Well, the new maps are pretty cool. I really dislike intensely the fact that region maps need to be unlocked. I dislike that Pathfinder statistics are now some (even if small) part of this re-release. I have not paid attention for a while, but is any of the material in this KS new? Is any of it better or more fleshed out than NG's Wilderlands of High Sorcery?

If Judges Guild would have stuck with some classic style of fantasy for it's statistics, I would have been more inclined to participate. I don't hate Pathfinder, but I have zero use for the book to take up that kind of space for PFs statistics.

~O

Unfortunately, Pathfinder is the going game right now. More classic style games are behind it in terms of fandom and sales so, I can see why PF was chosen for stats. There is money in PF and a business is about making money. While I do wish JG would go for C&C or even S&W for the Wilderlands I can see the logic in going with PF. Do I like it? No. Do I see it as a necessary evil in today's market? Yes.

It would have been better to be game statistic-free.

~O

rbledsaw3 wrote:

Snoring Rock wrote:They are at 27,000 already. Just 1000 more and it is funded. It is pricy though. And the add-ons are high too! If they fund, you get the map of CSIO of 5 bucks. Each level they add a map and 5 bucks. If they make it all the way, you get all of the maps for an extra 90 bucks. I would be on board if they would do some new content. It appears they plan only to clean up or republish old stuff. The maps will be two-sided in full color. One side with cool old-time map look and the other side done by Robert Conley that will be more workable as game master. Still 90 bucks?

40 bucks for the CSIO book that contains Pathfinder stats or JG Universal and has no new content. Same stuff as 1977. Then add 9 bucks for the maps. And it will take until summer 2015 to get the maps.

Who says this has no new content? As for the price of the maps, these are going to retail at $10 a piece. Printing cost float about $3.20-$4.50 depending on the quantity. The reason why addon's for maps come with a cost is for the pricing transparency. With kickstarters where stretch goals include "free" stuff, it's actually not free. You still are paying for it, they just choose to use that money to give you more. Our pledge system is too close to cost to do that. We aren't really going to be making any extra money until this thing goes to $80k and beyond as every bit of profit will go to the product of the book and the maps.

Bob, if this has new content then you need to post that on the KS details. If there is something new in it, I will back it. You may get a lot more that way. Tell us what new stuff will be in there.

Omote wrote:I am a fan of JG, but I am not a fan of ANY of what this particular KS is about. Well, the new maps are pretty cool. I really dislike intensely the fact that region maps need to be unlocked. I dislike that Pathfinder statistics are now some (even if small) part of this re-release. I have not paid attention for a while, but is any of the material in this KS new? Is any of it better or more fleshed out than NG's Wilderlands of High Sorcery?

If Judges Guild would have stuck with some classic style of fantasy for it's statistics, I would have been more inclined to participate. I don't hate Pathfinder, but I have zero use for the book to take up that kind of space for PFs statistics.

~O

Our initial feedback from the Kickstarter preview showed that people though that including all the Campaign Maps into the Project itself would make it way too high for people to want to buy in. With the original structure, we were going to need about $68k to fund the book, all the maps, and the minis. Since we shaved our pledges down, we need more pledges to get the same amount of stuff. So we decided to go this route to ensure that we at least get part of the project funded and a good portion of the maps (the artwork alone for each of those maps is $2k).

Yes, the material in this will have new content. We've based it on the original products (as NG did) and expanded from there without taking away the sandbox feel. Most of it is just filling the gaps to make the presentation of the City State, Thunderhold, and Modron more smooth.

As for the PF stats. I agree, they can be cumbersome. This is why we're releasing this as PFRPG and JG Universal. The JG Universal version is just the original stats from 1E AD&D with added stuff to make it compatible with Runequest, T&T, etc. Granted, JG Universal presentation has been clunky in the past, but I believe Clovis can attest to how I've cleaned that up quite a bit with our PDF release of the Original Caverns of Thracia.

Snoring Rock wrote: Bob, if this has new content then you need to post that on the KS details. If there is something new in it, I will back it. You may get a lot more that way. Tell us what new stuff will be in there.

Crap..... I've done a pretty good job on Facebook to that effect, but I totally just realize that you're right. The KS itself says nothing to that effect. /headdesk.....

As always, you've been invaluable, Clovis

rbledsaw3 wrote:

Snoring Rock wrote: Bob, if this has new content then you need to post that on the KS details. If there is something new in it, I will back it. You may get a lot more that way. Tell us what new stuff will be in there.

Crap..... I've done a pretty good job on Facebook to that effect, but I totally just realize that you're right. The KS itself says nothing to that effect. /headdesk.....

As always, you've been invaluable, Clovis

Glad to know I wasn't missing anything when I reread it 4 or 5 times to try and spot anything about new content. I've already backed this at the $60 level, but I am glad to hear there is new material for this as well.

rbledsaw3 wrote:

Omote wrote:I am a fan of JG, but I am not a fan of ANY of what this particular KS is about. Well, the new maps are pretty cool. I really dislike intensely the fact that region maps need to be unlocked. I dislike that Pathfinder statistics are now some (even if small) part of this re-release. I have not paid attention for a while, but is any of the material in this KS new? Is any of it better or more fleshed out than NG's Wilderlands of High Sorcery?

If Judges Guild would have stuck with some classic style of fantasy for it's statistics, I would have been more inclined to participate. I don't hate Pathfinder, but I have zero use for the book to take up that kind of space for PFs statistics.

~O

Our initial feedback from the Kickstarter preview showed that people though that including all the Campaign Maps into the Project itself would make it way too high for people to want to buy in. With the original structure, we were going to need about $68k to fund the book, all the maps, and the minis. Since we shaved our pledges down, we need more pledges to get the same amount of stuff. So we decided to go this route to ensure that we at least get part of the project funded and a good portion of the maps (the artwork alone for each of those maps is $2k).

Yes, the material in this will have new content. We've based it on the original products (as NG did) and expanded from there without taking away the sandbox feel. Most of it is just filling the gaps to make the presentation of the City State, Thunderhold, and Modron more smooth.

As for the PF stats. I agree, they can be cumbersome. This is why we're releasing this as PFRPG and JG Universal. The JG Universal version is just the original stats from 1E AD&D with added stuff to make it compatible with Runequest, T&T, etc. Granted, JG Universal presentation has been clunky in the past, but I believe Clovis can attest to how I've cleaned that up quite a bit with our PDF release of the Original Caverns of Thracia.

No kidding! The new released Caverns of Thracia is a work of loving art. The stats are clean, easy to read, convert fast and EASY! It is worth having another, so go get it.

Good information RB3.

~O

10 maps "unlocked", 8 more to go, roughly $24,000 in just under 3 days is needed. Considering how KS' often go, it will probably make it.

Only two maps left to "unlock", woohoo! I think it will happen in the last 13 hours.