Troll Lord Games

I a reading the errata thread for the M&T and see this about new SR rule? Is there a new rule? Or just another place we need to house rule it to make it work?

Snoring Rock wrote:I a reading the errata thread for the M&T and see this about new SR rule? Is there a new rule? Or just another place we need to house rule it to make it work?

It has to do with with the S.E. mechanic of roll ≥ . With that an SR of 1 is pointless. All have to be bumped up by 1 to be correct.

Ah, should read >.

This is the fiddly stuff along with flight classifications that were not all removed from D20 and notes on psionics, and well other stuff I have complained about before.

Thing is, most of the fixes, will also require a rules clarification too.

Good catch!

Snoring Rock wrote:Ah, should read >.

This is the fiddly stuff along with flight classifications that were not all removed from D20 and notes on psionics, and well other stuff I have complained about before.

Thing is, most of the fixes, will also require a rules clarification too.

Good catch!

I believe that the SR rules will be clarified in the PHB. But as you state, there are rulings that need to be written up in the M&T on various things.

It was also use your attribute modifier as a "bonus", then about the third printing it got changed to just a roll of the D20 to beat the SR score. Which is why the Mantle in the M&T makes you immune to magic, it is now impossible to beat an SR of 21 or higher. So you may want to change that to an SR of 18.

Treebore wrote:It was also use your attribute modifier as a "bonus", then about the third printing it got changed to just a roll of the D20 to beat the SR score. Which is why the Mantle in the M&T makes you immune to magic, it is now impossible to beat an SR of 21 or higher. So you may want to change that to an SR of 18.

I think as Traveller (or yourself?) noted elsewhere, the price of the Mantle is currently too low per the item creation rules. The pricing for SR points should probably not be linear.

Arduin wrote:

Treebore wrote:It was also use your attribute modifier as a "bonus", then about the third printing it got changed to just a roll of the D20 to beat the SR score. Which is why the Mantle in the M&T makes you immune to magic, it is now impossible to beat an SR of 21 or higher. So you may want to change that to an SR of 18.

I think as Traveller (or yourself?) noted elsewhere, the price of the Mantle is currently too low per the item creation rules. The pricing for SR points should probably not be linear.

Pretty sure Trav pointed that one out.

Did the Troll Lords say they were fixing rules? It was my understanding that just spelling and such would get fixed. I have not seen any acknowledgement from them that SR or anything else will get fixed. I for one, am not forking over money for another PHB, M&T or otherwise unless these kinds of things are fixed. There is a lot of these things between the M&T and PHB.

Conditions, flying skills, SR, incorporeal definition, etc, etc.

This rules light d20 idea is great and it is my game of choice, but there are too many disjointed, missing, or incomplete rules. Flexible is one thing, but "some assembly (house ruling) required" is something else. I do not want to open this can of worms on how if I want more rules go elsewhere. I am talking here of getting it right and making sure it is tight and fits as it should without contradictions and things like flying classifications from d20 accidentally copied over, or there being any question as to what undead are incorporeal or not and what that really means.

Ok, I went back and read what Steve posted about the PHB 6th printing. I appears that the Trolls are now open to hear about rules problems. In that case I will hang on a bit longer. I really hate being put on the hook to buy the book again in order to get clarifications.

Can someone direct me to where the Trolls have decided to do the same with the M&T?

Snoring Rock wrote:Did the Troll Lords say they were fixing rules? It was my understanding that just spelling and such would get fixed. I have not seen any acknowledgement from them that SR or anything else will get fixed.

The SR item was decided on a year or two ago in another thread I started.

It is in the PHB isn't it? I cannot recall, but I think it is just a d20 roll add modifier/bonus if any and then get equal to or less than the number indicated. So an SR of 2 means that you must roll 1 or a 2 an the spell has no affect.

Snoring Rock wrote:It is in the PHB isn't it? I cannot recall, but I think it is just a d20 roll add modifier/bonus if any and then get equal to or less than the number indicated. So an SR of 2 means that you must roll 1 or a 2 an the spell has no affect.

To overcome SR is roll equal to or greater than the SR # (Siege Engine). So an SR of 1 is meaningless. SR of 1 is supposed to be equivalent of 5% Spell Resistance. SR 2 = 10%, etc.

OK maybe not. If I am resistant to magic 5% of the time that means that 95% of the time I am not. If I roll 1 on a d20 that can only happen 5% of the time. Anything other than a 1 is a failure. a 1 is success and the spell would have no affect. Am I not understanding?

So if I am 50% resistant then 1-10 on the d20 would be resistant. 11-20 would mean the spell is affective. If I am 20% resistant than I would be affected only if the d20 reads 3 or above. 1 or 2 means the spell has no affect.

d20 % resistant
1 = 5% (SR 1)
1-2 = 10% (SR 2)
1-3 = 15% (SR 3)
1-4 = 20% (SR 4)
1-5 = 25% (SR 5)
1-6 = 30% (SR 6)
1-7 = 35% (SR 7)
1-8 = 40% (SR 8)

You get the picture...

So if I have an SR of 1 that means that if I roll a 1 the spell has no affect. Any other result means the spell does take affected. The Mantle spoken of in another thread with an SR of 21 is over the top a bit. In other words, you cannot be affected by magic unless the attacker has some kind of SR penalty ability. I see that no where in the game. Perhaps it should be 12. That may explain better the cost in the book.

The point is to roll low like with percentile dice.

Am I missing something here?

Snoring Rock wrote:OK maybe not. If I am resistant to magic 5% of the time that means that 95% of the time I am not. If I roll 1 on a d20 that can only happen 5% of the time. Anything other than a 1 is a failure. a 1 is success and the spell would have no affect. Am I not understanding?

That' not how it works using the Siege Engine. S.E. rule is the caster would have to roll EQUAL to or greater than SR # in order overcome the SR of the target creature. S.R. 1 = NO effective Spell Resistance in C&C because the caster can't roll LESS than 1 on a D20.

So, in C&C it becomes:

SR
2 = 5% Spell Resistance
3 = 10%
4 = 15%
...
20 = 95%
21 = 100%

Is there anything that even has an SR of 1? The lowest I remember seeing is a 3. Even so, if I were to come across an SR of 1, I'd just revert to rolling Percentiles.

Treebore wrote:Is there anything that even has an SR of 1? The lowest I remember seeing is a 3. Even so, if I were to come across an SR of 1, I'd just revert to rolling Percentiles.

Can't remember off hand. There are rules for cost of making an SR 1 item. In AD&D there were a few. In any case all monsters/items with SR have to be bumped by 1 to be correct. Or, the GM can just make it a roll higher than task for the MUs.

Treebore wrote:Is there anything that even has an SR of 1? The lowest I remember seeing is a 3. Even so, if I were to come across an SR of 1, I'd just revert to rolling Percentiles.

Some dragons have an SR of 1 - at least one in M&T, and a few in M&ToA. I'm never sure if that means I should ignore it or treat it as a 2 ...

Since those predate the SR fix, treat them as having SR2.

A straight percentage would be better. I tried for over an hour to roll a 21 on my d20 and failed every time. I tried several other d20's and none of them would land on 21 either. I get it, but rolling under the stated number for resistance (thus a percentage) achieves the same thing and makes the existing numbers work.

So have any of the Troll Lords weighed in?

kreider204 wrote:

Treebore wrote:Is there anything that even has an SR of 1? The lowest I remember seeing is a 3. Even so, if I were to come across an SR of 1, I'd just revert to rolling Percentiles.

Some dragons have an SR of 1 - at least one in M&T, and a few in M&ToA. I'm never sure if that means I should ignore it or treat it as a 2 ...

See, that makes no sense to even waste the ink. I am not sure SR works the same as the siege engine. Why set the SR to 1? If that means it has no SR, then why even bring it up? Orcs, kobolds and dolphins all have SR 1 as well, right?

Snoring Rock wrote: So have any of the Troll Lords weighed in?

Yes. Everyone/monster is considered to have an SR of 1. It will be S.E. mechanic of roll equal or greater to. (see Travellers comment about anything with a listed SR of 1 considered a 2 now (all SR ratings go up one actually.)

Thus, the scale goes from SR 2 -21. (5-100% SR)

Wow. Editing and rules review is in need of repair. Keep the errata coming guys....

Yeah, while I understand the desire to keep everything based on a D20, I think I may just house rule that I am converting all SR values to their percentage equivalent and rolling percentiles from now on. Definitely something I am going to be considering, but will wait on until I actually start using creatures with SR on a regular basis. Just so far they have had an SR higher than a "1", so the D20 system has worked just fine. So maybe just remembering to always add 1 to the SR is the way to go, at least for now. I'll at least put the "errata" in my house rules to help me remember to add "1", as well as to give a heads up to my players.