SRD for Castles and Crusades

[Traveller]

I freely admit that other than the fact a header is missing in OD&D, there's no real evidence supporting my claim that racial classes were built off a mistake. However, the prospect that Moldvay misread OD&D doesn't seem all that strange to me. If it was a deliberate choice on Moldvay's part to introduce racial classes, then it's an amazing coincidence that the OD&D layout error makes it appear that OD&D has racial classes and Moldvay continues the trend. On the flip side, Holmes was 100% correct in separating race from class. So there are two possibilities here.

• Moldvay misread Men & Magic and created racial classes based upon that.
• Moldvay knew that OD&D kept race and class separate, yet introduced racial classes anyway to simplify the game.

The end result is the same in that Basic D&D from Moldvay on had racial classes. The only question is how Moldvay got there.

[Treebore]

I freely admit that other than the fact a header is missing in OD&D, there's no real evidence supporting my claim that racial classes were built off a mistake. However, the prospect that Moldvay misread OD&D doesn't seem all that strange to me. If it was a deliberate choice on Moldvay's part to introduce racial classes, then it's an amazing coincidence that the OD&D layout error makes it appear that OD&D has racial classes and Moldvay continues the trend. On the flip side, Holmes was 100% correct in separating race from class. So there are two possibilities here.

• Moldvay misread Men & Magic and created racial classes based upon that.
• Moldvay knew that OD&D kept race and class separate, yet introduced racial classes anyway to simplify the game.

The end result is the same in that Basic D&D from Moldvay on had racial classes. The only question is how Moldvay got there.

His son should be at the convention I am going to in June, I'll try to remember to ask him if he knows.

[kreider204]

IIRC, modules B1 and B2, when released with the Holmes boxed sets, included some dwarf and halfling thief NPCs, and this was changed when they were released after Moldvay. So there must have been some intentional recognition and implementation of the difference.

[Arduin]

IIRC, modules B1 and B2, when released with the Holmes boxed sets, included some dwarf and halfling thief NPCs, and this was changed when they were released after Moldvay. So there must have been some intentional recognition and implementation of the difference.

From B1 "Once a class for each non-player character has been determined (this can be done prior to any terms being offered by the player characters), a 12-sided die should be rolled on the specific table corresponding to that type of character class to determine the individual character's name and race"

[Kayolan]

IIRC, modules B1 and B2, when released with the Holmes boxed sets, included some dwarf and halfling thief NPCs, and this was changed when they were released after Moldvay. So there must have been some intentional recognition and implementation of the difference.

From B1 "Once a class for each non-player character has been determined (this can be done prior to any terms being offered by the player characters), a 12-sided die should be rolled on the specific table corresponding to that type of character class to determine the individual character's name and race"

Which version of B1 are you quoting Arduin?

[Arduin]

IIRC, modules B1 and B2, when released with the Holmes boxed sets, included some dwarf and halfling thief NPCs, and this was changed when they were released after Moldvay. So there must have been some intentional recognition and implementation of the difference.

From B1 "Once a class for each non-player character has been determined (this can be done prior to any terms being offered by the player characters), a 12-sided die should be rolled on the specific table corresponding to that type of character class to determine the individual character's name and race"

Which version of B1 are you quoting Arduin?

Got it in 1980. Cover long gone. I never played Basic mind you. I went from OD&D directly to AD&D as that was the next version that hit my store shelf. I coverted for use in AD&D

[Kayolan]

IIRC, modules B1 and B2, when released with the Holmes boxed sets, included some dwarf and halfling thief NPCs, and this was changed when they were released after Moldvay. So there must have been some intentional recognition and implementation of the difference.

From B1 "Once a class for each non-player character has been determined (this can be done prior to any terms being offered by the player characters), a 12-sided die should be rolled on the specific table corresponding to that type of character class to determine the individual character's name and race"

Which version of B1 are you quoting Arduin?

Got it in 1980. Cover long gone. I never played Basic mind you. I went from OD&D directly to AD&D as that was the next version that hit my store shelf. I coverted for use in AD&D

Does the table look like this?

CHARACTER CLASSES OF HENCHMEN/
HIRELINGS
1 Fighter*
2 Fighter*
3 Fighter*
4 Cleric
5 Cleric
6 Thief
7 Thief
8 Magic-user**
9 Magic-user**
10 Any class desired
11 Any class desired
12 Any class desired
*Also Dwarves and Halflings
* *Also Elves

[Traveller]

A better question is whether the rooms are numbered using standard numbers or Roman numerals. If the former then he has the revised version for Moldvay Basic. If the latter then It's for Holmes.

[Arduin]

A better question is whether the rooms are numbered using standard numbers or Roman numerals. If the former then he has the revised version for Moldvay Basic. If the latter then It's for Holmes.

Standard numbers. 1981 BTW, mistypes before.

[alcyone]

Just looked over my 1980 Monsters and Treasure Assortment for any insight, but of course it uses the monstrous version of dwarves, elves, etc. with details like 50% chance it knows some spells.

But I would welcome a Monster and Treasure Assortment for C&C. Not that this one wouldn't work, but it would be nice if it had all of the M&T monsters and maybe Airdhean ones. The real value is in the treasure part.

[Snoring Rock]

Ah....Monster and Treasure Assortments. I had all three back in the day. I miss those. They were so cool. I bet those go for a pretty penny these days. I wonder if those are on a PDF somewhere? I would print them out on colored card stock.